Strange white dot in the photos

[telenous]

Hello to everyone,

I would like to ask for the lights of Leica experienced users on a matter of concern. I have now shot a few rolls of film with my new-old Leica M2. First I used a rigid Summicron which I had to return because it was slightly fogged in the rear element (and which, incidentally didn't affect the quality of the pictures). I replaced it recently with a Summicron DR which I have been using on and off in conjunction with a Summilux.

What concerns me is that some of the photos I took with the Summicron (and apparently this was not the case with the Summilux) had a bright white spot right in the middle. The spot is a perfect circle and it has the appearance of a progressive fade in its area. I should point out that the spot appears only when I shoot outdoors, in other words, whenever I used the Summicron indoors, the spot did not appear. What is kind of strange is that even when I shoot outdoors not all of the pictures display the spot.

I have really no clue what that spot is. My instinct is that it may be humidity and frost (the weather in the UK is really crispy these days). Worse, could it be a burnt curtain?

Thanks for reading this - I would appreciate any suggestions.

 

[FrankS]

Unfortunately, it sounds like a pin hole in the curtain. If you could post a picture it might help.

 

[telenous]

Hi Frank, thanks for your quick post - I will upload a couple of photos right now

 

[telenous]

These photos were taken in rapid succession. All were shot with the Summicron DR. The first photo does not have the spot I am talking about. The second shows the white spot for the first time. And in the third you can see it very clearly.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=26654&cat=500&ppuser=4333

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=26655&cat=500&ppuser=4333

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=26656&cat=500&ppuser=4333

 

[laptoprob]

Sounds like a shutter hole indeed. The lightspot only shows when exposed enough probably. When you take a few frames right after another it won't show, right?
Just examine the curtains. First and second.
I had a little light leak with my M2 that occured only sometimes. Appeared to be a leak in the rear door, topside! That obviously only showed in outdoor photos too.

cheers, Rob.

 

[telenous]

Thanks laptoprob - a few days ago I checked the curtain by flashing a powerful flashlight on it - I didn't see light passing through anything. How else can I check?

 

[laptoprob]

Did you check both curtains? Before and after exposure is a different curtain! Only after advance you see the first curtain again.
So check, fire a frame and check again.
Do you advance right after shooting a frame like I do? Then the first frame is the one most exposed.
I used to have a hole in the second frame, that's why it took some time until I found out!

cheers, Rob.

 

[telenous]

Sound advice Rob - I didn't know about the two curtains. However I checked with my Mag-lite. No trace of light in the curtain, first and second frame. Thanks anyway.

 

[FrankS]

Telenous, in the 3rd picture that you posted of the woman's face in profile, is that an enlarged area of a neg, or is it the whole negaive? If it is the whole negative, that white dot looks too big to be a hole in the shutter curtain.

 

[peterc]

My first reaction on seeing the shot you posted is the same as Frank's. If those are full neg shots, I'd suspect something on the rear element of the lens.

Peter

 

[laptoprob]

I missed the photo-post, I was typing mine. Not a shutter hole indeed. What it could be is mysterious. What happens after the third shot?
Any other leads to find the cause?

Rob.

 

[telenous]

Frank and Peter, thank you - I shot this with the goggles of the DR - so it is the entire neg and not just an enlargement. I am checking the lens now.

 

[telenous]

Rob,

that was the last shot of the film. In the next film there was no problem, although there were a few shots outdoors. But the problem resurfaced its ugly head (or rather spot) in the next film, which I only shot today. Unfortunately I do not have a CD of that film, which I only shot as a test roll. But you get the picture, some photos were fine, many more had the white spot.

 

[peterc]

From your last post, I'm assuming you do not do your own scanning. Were your negs all scanned at the same place? If so, looking at the negative, can you see the spot? Possibly an issue with their scanner if the dot isn't evident on the negative.

Peter

 

[telenous]

No, I am afraid I am not doing my own scanning. The spots are in the negs unfortunately. What should I be looking in the lens? It looks bright and clear, i.e. no fungus, no haze, scratchfree and all that. If there is something off with it is just that it has a little oil in the blades.

 

[peterc]

Anything that would make that much difference in light transmission should be fairly obvious. I have some pretty rough looking lenses (one has a fingerprint etched on an element and another has a deep scratch across the rear element) but you can't see these flaws in the negatives.
A pinhole in the shutter would usually make a smaller spot. And a shutter problem would be seen across the frame, rather than in the centre. A light leak usually comes from one side of the negative.
Is it possible that rhe shutter curtain is just very thin in the centre? Do you put on a lens cap between shots?

Peter

 

[laptoprob]

Is the white spot always kinda similar in shape, size and translucency? Always so exactly in the center of the negative?
Is it only with the DR?
Could it be some kind of condensation? Try the lens in the fridge to compare it cold. You stated it is progressive. Is that in size as well?

Puzzling...

Rob.

 

[FrankS]

Could it be a flare/reflection thing that happens only when the sun is at a certain angle to the lens? Where you taking these pictures towards the sun? Does this problem ever show up on indoor photos?

 

[telenous]

As I said, I can't see any light going through the curtain but the curtain is far from mint. It's not bent and it doesn't look thin anywhere but there is something like an old stain in the top left corner. It does take some effort to notice it though. And, indeed, I do keep the lenses covered between shots. May I ask, if someone knows, whether a lens may give that sort of result if it gets very cold? Perhaps it is a stupid thing to ask, forgive my ignorance.

 

[telenous]

Re-Frank: no, the spot does not appear in indoor shots. If it is a flare, it is a very peculiar one, what with appearing in the dead centre of the photos and all that.