FrankS
Registered User
Do you use a lens shade? Where these pictures taken towards the sun?
Strange white dot in the photos
- Thread starter telenous
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peterc
Heretic
As Rob mentioned ... condensation is a possibility if it's cold.
Peter
Peter
telenous
Well-known
Re-Rob: I will try getting the lens cold and I will check it indoors with dim light. Yes, I have the problem only with this Summicron DR, so, in all probability there is something wrong with it. But then again I only use the SUmmilux when I am going for night-time photography.
telenous
Well-known
I am really very thankful for all the input. I will take some photos tonight and tomorrow. I will try to get to the bottom of this 'mystery'. If you have any other suggestions please let me know.
telenous
Well-known
RE-Frank: No shade - the sky is overcast. Today we had real dense fog in the morning, so humidity was high.
laptoprob
back to basics
Could it be humidity-induced? Together with temperature changes it could happen. I don't think it is 'ordinary' flare as it is always so dead-center.
How about size? Always about the same?
It should not occur, it should not happen with temparature changes.
cheers, Rob.
How about size? Always about the same?
It should not occur, it should not happen with temparature changes.
cheers, Rob.
telenous
Well-known
I suspected humidity (or the curtain); The spot appears gradually; the radius is the same in every photo that it appears but it is of varying intensity, and it appears gradually. So, sometimes it is barely there. Then, progressively, it becomes more and more prominent (like the picture in my gallery)
laptoprob
back to basics
If you keep any object (lens, camera, glasses) in a cold place and move it to a warm place you get condensation. Inside or outside a jacket can make the difference when it's cold outside.
But if it's internal condensation, just slightly more humid air inside the lens condensating on the glass could do this trick. If the glass is cold enough.
Then the relatively moist air has to be removed before other damage occurs.
Where did this DR come from? Tropics?
cheers, Rob.
But if it's internal condensation, just slightly more humid air inside the lens condensating on the glass could do this trick. If the glass is cold enough.
Then the relatively moist air has to be removed before other damage occurs.
Where did this DR come from? Tropics?
cheers, Rob.
telenous
Well-known
Re-Rob: The tropics? Well, nearly. The seller was in Scotland, not quite known for its spells of dry weather.
You are right about the condensation issue. I carry the camera inside my jacket, and I take it out only to take a shot. Perhaps the difference of my body temp and of the surrounding environment creates some sort of condensation.
I take it from the replies that no one has faced a similar problem, although some of you live in areas with relativily high humidity and quite cold weather?
You are right about the condensation issue. I carry the camera inside my jacket, and I take it out only to take a shot. Perhaps the difference of my body temp and of the surrounding environment creates some sort of condensation.
I take it from the replies that no one has faced a similar problem, although some of you live in areas with relativily high humidity and quite cold weather?
telenous
Well-known
I am getting offline - will check for any new posts tomorrow. Thanks loads to everyone for the suggestions and help.
Alkis
Alkis
laptoprob
back to basics
And after the shot, maybe one that takes a little more time, the lens cools down a little and goes back into the jacket!
Try cooling the lens in the fridge for a while and when the spot shows when you take it out you know the cause. Now for the remedy...
cheers, Rob.
Tropical Scotland...
Try cooling the lens in the fridge for a while and when the spot shows when you take it out you know the cause. Now for the remedy...
cheers, Rob.
Tropical Scotland...
peterc
Heretic
I've had this problem at the Toronto zoo when going into tropical display buildings from outside on cool/cold days. Usually then it was on the front element ... warm humid air hitting the cold glass.telenous said:
Next time you're out on a cold day check to see where the condensation fog is forming on the lens. If it's on the front element that's pretty normal. If it's inside, it might be time to let the lens sit in a sealed bag with some dessicant for a while.
Peter
M
mad_boy
Guest
Hmmm this is an intersting one.
I do not have an answer, but some observations that might trigger brighter minds than mine toward a solution.
1) where did the light come from?
In at the third picture posted that is clearly bright spot in the centre.
Logic suggest that the litht spot has received more light than the rest of the neg.
That light must have come from somehere.
If it were the lens then:
- It can not be an obstruction in the centre (that would have given a dark spot)
- It could be an obstruction apart from the centre (fogging on the perimeter), but this is unlikely, sice the spot is always the same size. Fog would grow/diminish in time and therefore the size was likely to change.
- It could be anobstruction overall (de-cementing), but then one would expect dark rings around the bright spot More light in one area must come from somewhere (i.e. dark areas somewhere else).
2) Where did the hair go?
The laydies hair is visible in parts of the spot, but on other parts it is missing. How comes? how can it be bleached on the top. not at the bottom althoug the spot seems to be uniformly bright?
I would challenge test the camera to make sure it is the lens.
Repeat the next prodecure twice, once before firing, once after (so that you test both curtains).
- Find lots of light (sunny outdoor or 250W construction lamp.
- Mount the lux that does not give the problems.
- With lens cap on, 'expost' all 6 sides of the camera for 1 minutes each.
- remove lens cap and aim for few minutes to a white wall illuminated by that light.
If that does not show the spot, then it is unlikely to be the camera.
in that case, after each shot, remove the lens and check if you see any irregularities.
mad_boy
telenous said:
I do not have an answer, but some observations that might trigger brighter minds than mine toward a solution.
1) where did the light come from?
In at the third picture posted that is clearly bright spot in the centre.
Logic suggest that the litht spot has received more light than the rest of the neg.
That light must have come from somehere.
If it were the lens then:
- It can not be an obstruction in the centre (that would have given a dark spot)
- It could be an obstruction apart from the centre (fogging on the perimeter), but this is unlikely, sice the spot is always the same size. Fog would grow/diminish in time and therefore the size was likely to change.
- It could be anobstruction overall (de-cementing), but then one would expect dark rings around the bright spot More light in one area must come from somewhere (i.e. dark areas somewhere else).
2) Where did the hair go?
The laydies hair is visible in parts of the spot, but on other parts it is missing. How comes? how can it be bleached on the top. not at the bottom althoug the spot seems to be uniformly bright?
I would challenge test the camera to make sure it is the lens.
Repeat the next prodecure twice, once before firing, once after (so that you test both curtains).
- Find lots of light (sunny outdoor or 250W construction lamp.
- Mount the lux that does not give the problems.
- With lens cap on, 'expost' all 6 sides of the camera for 1 minutes each.
- remove lens cap and aim for few minutes to a white wall illuminated by that light.
If that does not show the spot, then it is unlikely to be the camera.
in that case, after each shot, remove the lens and check if you see any irregularities.
mad_boy
telenous
Well-known
Re-mad boy: Thanks, this is very thorough, what you are saying makes sense. I guess I will have to try your test too tomorrow morning.
laptoprob
back to basics
Hi Alkis, any shutter hole would show if you look through it from the back to strong light. Both curtains ofcourse. The method Maddog describes is a thorough one to localize any light leak. You could do it with and without a lens cap to fully check the shutter curtains.
But, I could not think of a shutter curtain or camera hole to be progressive. It could only get more (whiter AND bigger spot) when exposed to light for a longer time.
Do try the temperature test as well!
Rob.
But, I could not think of a shutter curtain or camera hole to be progressive. It could only get more (whiter AND bigger spot) when exposed to light for a longer time.
Do try the temperature test as well!
Rob.
telenous
Well-known
Hello again,
First let me say many, many thanks to Frank, Rob, Peter and MadBoy for your sound advice and your generosity with your time. Here is an update: I ran two rolls of film earlier this morning. Most of the pictures taken were outdoors. The sky was forecast, so I ended up taking pictures with f11 or less. I took consecutive shots, exchanging lenses, first a few with the Summicron DR and then with the Summilux.
The white spot is there in all the pictures taken with the Summicron ONLY. So, it is not the curtain after all. I followed all the advice on this thread to see if there was any light leak or if the lens condenses etc. But I am none the wiser as to the cause of the spot. I will upload shortly some (not very artistic I am afraid) photos where you will be able to see the difference between the Summilux and te Summicron.
I contacted the seller in Scotland and they agreed to have the lens back and to look at it. It's lucky that I did that just now because my three week guarantee for return expires on Thursday. The sale was actually commissioned but the store that sold me the lens is respectable and they will honour the agreement (or so I think). As they will examine more closely the lens I am sure they will come up with some explanation or other. I will update this thread when this explanation becomes available to me as well.
One last thing: I have never taken part in any forum or thread before. Possibly because I never felt the enthusiasm to do so. Or perhaps because I have never come across a forum which is so good as this one. To put it simply: The Rangefinder Forum rocks!
With many thanks
Alkis
First let me say many, many thanks to Frank, Rob, Peter and MadBoy for your sound advice and your generosity with your time. Here is an update: I ran two rolls of film earlier this morning. Most of the pictures taken were outdoors. The sky was forecast, so I ended up taking pictures with f11 or less. I took consecutive shots, exchanging lenses, first a few with the Summicron DR and then with the Summilux.
The white spot is there in all the pictures taken with the Summicron ONLY. So, it is not the curtain after all. I followed all the advice on this thread to see if there was any light leak or if the lens condenses etc. But I am none the wiser as to the cause of the spot. I will upload shortly some (not very artistic I am afraid) photos where you will be able to see the difference between the Summilux and te Summicron.
I contacted the seller in Scotland and they agreed to have the lens back and to look at it. It's lucky that I did that just now because my three week guarantee for return expires on Thursday. The sale was actually commissioned but the store that sold me the lens is respectable and they will honour the agreement (or so I think). As they will examine more closely the lens I am sure they will come up with some explanation or other. I will update this thread when this explanation becomes available to me as well.
One last thing: I have never taken part in any forum or thread before. Possibly because I never felt the enthusiasm to do so. Or perhaps because I have never come across a forum which is so good as this one. To put it simply: The Rangefinder Forum rocks!
With many thanks
Alkis
laptoprob
back to basics
Hi Alkis,
Good to hear you have the possibility to send the lens back.
So the white spot is in every picture. Same size? Have you checked during your shooting if you could see something in the lens? Condensation should be visible. The spot being relatively sharp rules out the outer front lens I guess. But, condensation should also vary with temperature.
Strange case indeed.
cheers, Rob.
Good to hear you have the possibility to send the lens back.
So the white spot is in every picture. Same size? Have you checked during your shooting if you could see something in the lens? Condensation should be visible. The spot being relatively sharp rules out the outer front lens I guess. But, condensation should also vary with temperature.
Strange case indeed.
cheers, Rob.
telenous
Well-known
Hi Rob, yeah, I guess I am sort of lucky, in that respect. Unfortunately I cannot upload any more pictures before midnight - I have exceeded my limit, or so it seems! But I will do so asap. Perhaps this is a matter of interest to others too.
Well, I ended up having a nice collection of photos today: brick walls, trunks of trees, postboxes etc. 🙂
I looked for condensation, and unless it is something that the untrained eye cannot see, there was nothing in there. Zero, zilch, nada. The glass was clear. The person that I talked over the phone said that if there is something in one of the inner elements then it may not be perceivable. He also said that the lens was recently serviced (but perhaps THAT explains it). I do not know. I will come back with more when I hear from them. And, oh, yes, I will post the photos.
A
Well, I ended up having a nice collection of photos today: brick walls, trunks of trees, postboxes etc. 🙂
I looked for condensation, and unless it is something that the untrained eye cannot see, there was nothing in there. Zero, zilch, nada. The glass was clear. The person that I talked over the phone said that if there is something in one of the inner elements then it may not be perceivable. He also said that the lens was recently serviced (but perhaps THAT explains it). I do not know. I will come back with more when I hear from them. And, oh, yes, I will post the photos.
A
telenous
Well-known
Sorry I forgot: The size of the spot is invariably the same (look at the picture of the girl for relative size). But sometimes it is dimmer and some other times more prominent.
thafred
silver addict
My guess would be that this is condensation on the inner lens Elements! I recently cleaned my old n dirty Summar (using an Ultra sonic bath with distilled water) and got some water trapped between the front two lens Elements! Not much and not noticeable at room temperature but when outside in the Cold the lens quickly fogged forming an uniform cycle in the exact middle of the glass (I gues that temperature distibution between the metall and glass is the reason)
Only after carefull cleaning and drying the problem went away...since you sent it back I hope they can identify and eliminate the problem.
Best regards
Fred
Only after carefull cleaning and drying the problem went away...since you sent it back I hope they can identify and eliminate the problem.
Best regards
Fred
