Street Photographer...Not a Terrorist

[Andy K]

IMHO the technology is not the problem but the squaremiles to grow the plants are. As far as I know all german farmland put together is not enough to produce the required 5.75% which shall be mixed to traditional fuel in the near future.

Another problem is the ecological part of "Bio"fuel. You need a lot of chemicals and a lot of energy to grow and process the plants which may result in more pollution than traditional fuels.

From an economical point of view there are doubts, too.

The way to go is hydrogen in fuelcells and synthetic fuel from biomass.

Producing hydrogen from seawater with energy generated from sunlight can be done in most of the deserts north and south of the equator.

Solution 1
Solution 2

 

[dazedgonebye]

We are in agreement. By "technology" I mean the ability to produce it in sufficient quantities, cheaply enough and without a net negative effect on the environment.
I would not have thought that solar tech is advanced enough to be used efficiently as you describe. I think we're still talking costs at many times that of petroleum products.

IMHO the technology is not the problem but the squaremiles to grow the plants are. As far as I know all german farmland put together is not enough to produce the required 5.75% which shall be mixed to traditional fuel in the near future.

Another problem is the ecological part of "Bio"fuel. You need a lot of chemicals and a lot of energy to grow and process the plants which may result in more pollution than traditional fuels.

From an economical point of view there are doubts, too.

The way to go is hydrogen in fuelcells and synthetic fuel from biomass.

Producing hydrogen from seawater with energy generated from sunlight can be done in most of the deserts north and south of the equator.

 

[Socke]

Andy, we are both correct, I referred to the current way of producing oil plants like rapeseed (colza) and process the oil to methyl ester which can be used in most diesel engines with minor changes and without loss of performance.

This diesel fuel replacement is easy to produce but only from a limited number of plants.

Biomass is better since any organic waste is biomass.
The technology to synthesise fuel for otto and diesel engines has been first used in an industrial scale during 2nd worldwar in germany.
The mineral oil industry seems uninterested at best and the technology is not cheap.
I don't know where the break even point compared to mineral oil is, it was far more expensive than $20 per barrel brent.


And solar tec is pretty far, here they produce enough electricity with a combination of natural gas powered fuel cells and amorphus solar cells to meat the demand of a small street with some 10 pubs, an add agency and a fashion shop. Another resturant is run by a similar but smaller and more modern installation not bigger than the oven for a central heating needed for that building.
Of cause these are demonsstration objekts and the cost where not a problem, they set that up to show that it is doable. The economies of scale and better production mehtods will bring the price down, add the increased cost for natural gas and mineral oil and you have an alternative 🙂


The tax money spent on these demo systems is well spent IMHO, not only for environmental reasons but there are the the jobs of the future.

 

[dazedgonebye]

I'm actually quite encouraged for the future of energy. We are at least probling in the right directions. I do fear that, human nature being what it is, we won't get there until pain and suffering forces us to.
Were I elected King, my immediate plans would involve a combination of research funding, tax incentives and commitment to use alternative fuels in government vehicles (much of this we already do, but not to nearly the extent we should).
For the immediate problem of severing our dependency on unstable regions of the world, I'd drill every hole I thought might yeild a bucket full.
(That and I'd pick a really hot queen.)

Without the need for their oil, we could decide our involvement from the higher ground of a less financially interested party.

 

[RJBender]

George and Andy remind me of the little boy who pulls the little girls pig-tails b/c he likes her. Brokeback Rangefinder!

Andy- We would be in this mess if you guys hadn't "Cocked-up" things when you made Iraq.

Anyway..... Gotten pretty far of topic, although it has been a good read.

I just can't get the picture out of my head of a Canadian Mounty, in the red coat, riding pants, Smokey the Bear hat, riding a horse going door-to-door in the Sunni triangle asking "Have you seen a Hostage, Eh?".

I know people pick on W's supposed Rosy picture of what was going to happen in Iraq, but is anyone really that surprised? (I watched that "Mission Accomplished" speech. He talks a lot about the challenges ahead and that the fight isn't over. I really think the press got spun by the left on that one, plus the banner was a bit over the top.)

Let's point out the things that didn't happen during after the invasion that some on the left and in the media said would happen.
Our technology would fail and we would get bogged down in another Viet Nam (remember the sand storm and pause.)
We had 40,000 body bags in theatre and casualites were going to be heavy.
Iraq would lash out at Israel, starting a regional war.
The Arab street would erupt in anger (not really till lately, and then mostly in France).

We can talk about how unstable Iraq is, but look at parts of France! Sweet Mother-of-all-things-holy, maybe there is some fight in them. As to "no-go zones", have you ever been lost in East St. Louis after dark?
A country with that much fundementalist passion, pent up anger, and a wide open chance for power, what do you expect???

And let's set one thing straight. There is not going to be a civil war. Anyone who says that there is has a basic fundamental missunderstanding of what has happened in recent armed conflicts.

As soon as you put two trucks and 50 guys together the US can blast it to pieces. The best someone can do is like the current insugency. The most you are going to get is tit-for-tat thuggury back and forth. Why do you think the use IEDs and suicide bombers mostly. There are not going to be any pitched, prolonged battles.

Yes. Was I supposed to have gotten shot or stabbed?

R.J.

 

[anselwannab]

R.J.- Didn't mean to lump all of Southern Illinois into that.

East St. Louis Population: 33k, 15,291 crimes per 100k. 1079 Arrests
Belleville Population: 40k, 3912 crimes per 100k, 1009 arrests.

The way I see it you have almost a 1 in 5 chance of being a crime victim in East St. Louis, every year. And not only that, it has almost 4 times the crime as Belleville, but there was about the same number of arrests. Or if you live there for 10 years you have a 90 percent chance of being a crime victim.

OK, you got me. It might take more than one time gettin lost to get in trouble on the East Side. Of course, I did get mugged in Soulard, and not in East St. Louis. Though, I went to McGurks and Tucker's more than I went to the "establishments" cross the creek.

Just looking at your avatar, if I was a car-jacker, I think I'd give you a pass and wait for some drunk coeds going to dance at the OZ.

 

[RJBender]

R.J.- Didn't mean to lump all of Southern Illinois into that.

East St. Louis Population: 33k, 15,291 crimes per 100k. 1079 Arrests
Belleville Population: 40k, 3912 crimes per 100k, 1009 arrests.

The way I see it you have almost a 1 in 5 chance of being a crime victim in East St. Louis, every year. And not only that, it has almost 4 times the crime as Belleville, but there was about the same number of arrests. Or if you live there for 10 years you have a 90 percent chance of being a crime victim.

OK, you got me. It might take more than one time gettin lost to get in trouble on the East Side.

Ansel,

ESL used to be the "murder capitol" of the USA with the highest murder rates per capita in the US. Back then, I would agree with you. Some city officials I've talked to believe that the title was not deserved because most of the victims were not ESL residents. There are large, vacant industrial areas in the city that are not found across the river in St. Louis. So, if someone from St. Louis wanted to dispose of a body, they could do it easier in ESL.

The scene is much safer now probably due to a Casino and 4 Metro Link stops within the city. More info HERE. Jackie Joyner-Kersee comes back regularly to visit. I saw her at a restaurant in Fairview Heights several weeks ago.

You've been to the OZ? The OZ is actually in the Village of Sauget, adjacent to ESL. I've been to Tucker's in the Soulard area of St. Louis. Most of the projects adjacent to Soulard have been demolished during the last 3 or 4 years.


R.J.

 

[anselwannab]

RJ,

Yeah, I went to SLU and used to go to OZ (Wednesday night? all you could drink) during undergrad. Hot legs contest was always good because of the strip-joints around there.

I miss Tucker's steaks, Steak Mudega at Lorusso's (Rich the chef knows me as the double order Mudega guy), and Ted Drewe's Ice Cream. Few weeknights are better than a good steak at Tucker's followed by a few pints at McGurks at the table/bar by where they have the bands. Maybe head to Mike&Mins for some blues.

I grew up in Chicago, but my soul belongs to St. Louis.

 

[bmattock]

The tax money spent on these demo systems is well spent IMHO, not only for environmental reasons but there are the the jobs of the future.

And, in an ironic twist - the idled Eastman Chemical (spinoff of Eastman Kodak) plant is producing...biodiesel.

http://arkansasbusiness.com/news/headline_article.asp?aid=42267

Eastman Chemical Begins Biodiesel Production in Arkansas
10/31/05 11:52:07 AM
By Arkansas Business staff, Arkansasbusiness.com Daily Report

Eastman Chemical Co. announced last week that its Batesville plant has begun production of biodiesel fuel, a renewable fuel produced from soybeans.

Dr. Randy Powell, vice president and general manager of Eastman's Arkansas operations, said the Batesville plant is the only Eastman location making biodiesel.

"Biodiesel is not a traditional product for Eastman, but being located in an agricultural region of the state and having chemical processing expertise provides our plant a unique opportunity to serve the biodiesel market in Arkansas," he said.

Eastman is using its existing manufacturing facilities to produce biodiesel. The fuel, which according to state Agriculture Commissioner Richard Bell has "captured the imagination" of Arkansas' soybean farmers, is made from soybeans and recycled waste such as vegetable oil.

"Having existing chemical manufacturing facilities already available helped provide us quick entry into biodiesel production," Powell said. "We are using soybean oil as our primary feedstock for producing biodiesel, but we also plan to have capabilities for using recycled waste vegetable oil before the end of the year."

Riceland Foods Inc. of Stuttgart and England Dryer & Elevator Inc. of England are supplying Eastman with soybean oil. 3-D Plumbing Inc. of Batesville will soon supply waste vegetable oil.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[dazedgonebye]

Soybeans and waste vegetable oil...
Sounds like Arkansas is about to take on the odor of a veggie burger with fries.

I still wonder at the efficiency of growing crops for fuel.

 

[RJBender]

RJ,

Yeah, I went to SLU and used to go to OZ (Wednesday night? all you could drink) during undergrad. Hot legs contest was always good because of the strip-joints around there.

I miss Tucker's steaks, Steak Mudega at Lorusso's (Rich the chef knows me as the double order Mudega guy), and Ted Drewe's Ice Cream. Few weeknights are better than a good steak at Tucker's followed by a few pints at McGurks at the table/bar by where they have the bands. Maybe head to Mike&Mins for some blues.

I grew up in Chicago, but my soul belongs to St. Louis.

When the clubs in STL close at 1:00 am, folks can just drive across the bridge to the OZ which is open until 5:00 am. When the OZ closes you can go next door to Pop's which is open 24 hours/ 7 days per week. If you take the second exit off the Poplar Street bridge you will end up in ESL. 😱

Mark, next time you come back for a visit, let me know.

BTW, Sid King's on East Colfax in Denver beat all the clubs around here IMO. That guy was hilarious.

R.J.