semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
^----- I think you raise an important point here, AIS.
The time for introspection is not generally while shooting on the street; events unfold too quickly. Before, and after, yes. During, not so much. You either look, or you look away. But in my view the whole point of working on the street is to look, to see, what's out there.
The time for introspection is not generally while shooting on the street; events unfold too quickly. Before, and after, yes. During, not so much. You either look, or you look away. But in my view the whole point of working on the street is to look, to see, what's out there.
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
Nice images all! Thanks. You are clearly cut out for street photography! Keep up the good work.
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
Funny, sad, and true.
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
Thanks Roland. I haven't seen it... not sure how I missed it! I LOVE that red dress image by Callahan... its soooo.. ummm!
Jamie
Jamie
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
2nd listed meaning:
noun: a person who enjoys seeing the pain or distress of others.
I think this is more what I had in mind in the original post. And from what I've read in the thread so far, I'd guess that nearly everyone here tries to avoid being this kind of photographer. I make an important distinction here however. The word "enjoy" is hugely important. I think much of what we think of as excellent street photography often shows people in pain or distress (I'm thinking primarily of journalism-based images of subjects such as the plight of the homeless, life in war zones and famines, etc.)
However when I see photography that, to me, seems clearly to exhibit the photographer's ego more than anything else, then I draw the line and call it voyeurism.
noun: a person who enjoys seeing the pain or distress of others.
I think this is more what I had in mind in the original post. And from what I've read in the thread so far, I'd guess that nearly everyone here tries to avoid being this kind of photographer. I make an important distinction here however. The word "enjoy" is hugely important. I think much of what we think of as excellent street photography often shows people in pain or distress (I'm thinking primarily of journalism-based images of subjects such as the plight of the homeless, life in war zones and famines, etc.)
However when I see photography that, to me, seems clearly to exhibit the photographer's ego more than anything else, then I draw the line and call it voyeurism.
jky
Well-known
Good street photography to me have very little to do with distressed people... good street photography (again *to me*) is an interplay of light, composition, subject matter of course, spatial arrangement....etc. This is much harder to achieve than taking a photo of a homeless man, a gentleman having a coffee, a young woman crossing the street...
snausages
Well-known
I don't find the "everyone's fair game in public" argument satisfying. I think enough of us empathize with strangers' feelings of intrusion to indicate that the technique's ethics are more complicated than its legality.
Perhaps the answer to "is photographing a stranger appropriate?" is connected to whether the photographer is working hard or being lazy, to whether she is making art or noise.
If she photographs from a distance great enough that the subject is unaware, she's probably either making an uninteresting photo or a photo that the subject won't mind because neither their face nor identity is the photo's concern.
But, if she photographs close enough to the subject to be noticed, maybe the subject's reaction reveals something about the merits of the photo. If the subject feels violated, I would bet that in most cases the photo is boring or meaningless. The subject was doing nothing worth photographing. They were simply a person the photographer found unusually attractive or ugly. The photographer has not sought or found a compelling story. The subject did not deserve to be photographed and their discomfort reveals that the photographer has involved them in a pointless exercise. But, if the subject is not concerned with the photographer, there is a clue something good may be happening. The subject is engaged. He or she is doing something. Something conscious. (Walking is often a highly unconscious activity.) And they are either too distracted (by joy, grief, violence, sport or anything else) to care. Or, they intuit that the situation is remarkable enough that, yes, now is the time to capture what unfolds.
I think street photography is extremely challenging - especially now that "life" is lived less in public - and most often practiced poorly. Maybe all those unhappy strangers are credible critics telling us, 'work harder.'
Perhaps the answer to "is photographing a stranger appropriate?" is connected to whether the photographer is working hard or being lazy, to whether she is making art or noise.
If she photographs from a distance great enough that the subject is unaware, she's probably either making an uninteresting photo or a photo that the subject won't mind because neither their face nor identity is the photo's concern.
But, if she photographs close enough to the subject to be noticed, maybe the subject's reaction reveals something about the merits of the photo. If the subject feels violated, I would bet that in most cases the photo is boring or meaningless. The subject was doing nothing worth photographing. They were simply a person the photographer found unusually attractive or ugly. The photographer has not sought or found a compelling story. The subject did not deserve to be photographed and their discomfort reveals that the photographer has involved them in a pointless exercise. But, if the subject is not concerned with the photographer, there is a clue something good may be happening. The subject is engaged. He or she is doing something. Something conscious. (Walking is often a highly unconscious activity.) And they are either too distracted (by joy, grief, violence, sport or anything else) to care. Or, they intuit that the situation is remarkable enough that, yes, now is the time to capture what unfolds.
I think street photography is extremely challenging - especially now that "life" is lived less in public - and most often practiced poorly. Maybe all those unhappy strangers are credible critics telling us, 'work harder.'
daninjc
Well-known
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I think Gregory's pick of the fallen man has been the most interesting point in this thread so far and I admire him for taking it ... but I'm not sure I could have!
If you can take a shot in a situation like that then you really, as a photographer, must believe it is your right to do so and not hesitate.
If you can take a shot in a situation like that then you really, as a photographer, must believe it is your right to do so and not hesitate.
Nikkor AIS
Nikkor AIS
Thanks Keith. I guess I posted that one to stir the pot a little bit.
And I am leaving myself open to criticism for being insensitive. In truth, what I find offensive about this image is that the people from the store are more concerned with "me" taking the picture than comforting or giving assistance to the injured man.
The fact that the sidewalk wasn't shovelled no doubt played a role in the manager's insistence that I delete the images (taken with Leica MP and 35 1.4 Summilux
) or as he said, "Give me the film" .
Look, here is the thing. To me, street is social commentary. I never stage stuff, I never ask, I never explain. I just take the best pictures I can with whatever camera I happen to have with me at the time.
And yes, I have used telephotos for street work over the years. In fact, I have used Nikkor super telephotos.
Nikkor 800 5.6 IF-ED AIS on Nikon D3 hand held, 1/4000 second @ 5.6
Nikkor 800 5.6 IF-ED AIS on Nikon D3
There are limits/boundaries I won't cross. Like, I don't look into people's houses. However, if you brush your teeth on your deck in the middle of the day, you are fair game in my book.
This guy has actually seen this photo and thinks it's hilarious. I think he is kind of proud of being made famous.
Nikkor 800 5.6 IF-ED AIS with TC-301 on Nikon D3
Nikkor 800 5.6 IF-ED AIS with TC-301 on Nikon D3
One of my favourite shots ever. One of my neighbours kissing his dog on the forehead.
I took this in a clothing store while waiting for my daughter to come out of the change room. Store security asked me if I was taking pictures. "Oh no," I said, "I don't have my flash with me and it's too dark".
Leica M7 with 50 1.0 Noctilux, 1/30 sec @ 1.0 100 ASA film
And I am leaving myself open to criticism for being insensitive. In truth, what I find offensive about this image is that the people from the store are more concerned with "me" taking the picture than comforting or giving assistance to the injured man.
The fact that the sidewalk wasn't shovelled no doubt played a role in the manager's insistence that I delete the images (taken with Leica MP and 35 1.4 Summilux
) or as he said, "Give me the film" .Look, here is the thing. To me, street is social commentary. I never stage stuff, I never ask, I never explain. I just take the best pictures I can with whatever camera I happen to have with me at the time.
And yes, I have used telephotos for street work over the years. In fact, I have used Nikkor super telephotos.
Nikkor 800 5.6 IF-ED AIS on Nikon D3 hand held
, 1/4000 second @ 5.6 Nikkor 800 5.6 IF-ED AIS on Nikon D3
There are limits/boundaries I won't cross. Like, I don't look into people's houses. However, if you brush your teeth on your deck in the middle of the day, you are fair game in my book.
This guy has actually seen this photo and thinks it's hilarious. I think he is kind of proud of being made famous.
Nikkor 800 5.6 IF-ED AIS with TC-301 on Nikon D3
Nikkor 800 5.6 IF-ED AIS with TC-301 on Nikon D3
One of my favourite shots ever. One of my neighbours kissing his dog on the forehead.
I took this in a clothing store while waiting for my daughter to come out of the change room. Store security asked me if I was taking pictures. "Oh no," I said, "I don't have my flash with me and it's too dark"
. Leica M7 with 50 1.0 Noctilux, 1/30 sec @ 1.0 100 ASA film
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Lax Jought
Well-known
Love your street photos. Very candid.
Nikkor AIS
Nikkor AIS
Thanks Lax.
Here are a couple of older ones.
One of my first "street shots" taken with Nikkor 24 2.8 AIS and FM2.
It's funny, some folks seem to have a problem with the definition of "street photography." I never have. I have always thought of myself as a street photographer.
If you ask me, I really think it has more to do with the misconceived idea that street photography is only valid if it's shot with a 35 mm and a Leica.
Nikkor 300 2.0 IF-ED AIS on Nikon D3
Older work
Nikkor 135 2.0 on Nikon F2AS
I really identified with this kid not wanting to get his hair cut when the haircutter gave me the one-finger salute.
Nikkor 500 4.0 IF-ED AIS on FM2
Nikkor 16 2.8 AIS on F2AS
Now some more recent ones. In truth, I have about 50 rolls ready to soup.
I am really excited to see the images as I think I have been doing some good work on the street with my Leicas/Widelux F7.
And yes I have no problem photographing children in my street photography. The parents were standing right beside me when I took this image. I never asked permission, and didn't give them my name.
Leica MP with 28 1.9 ASPH on 160 ASA.
One of the reasons I get involved in these discussions is it gives me a chance to share some photos and hopefully inspire others to get out there and do some street photography.
The best way to keep our rights as photographers is to exercise them.
Have fun and be safe everyone.
Here are a couple of older ones.
One of my first "street shots" taken with Nikkor 24 2.8 AIS and FM2.
It's funny, some folks seem to have a problem with the definition of "street photography." I never have
. I have always thought of myself as a street photographer.If you ask me, I really think it has more to do with the misconceived idea that street photography is only valid if it's shot with a 35 mm and a Leica
. Nikkor 300 2.0 IF-ED AIS on Nikon D3
Older work
Nikkor 135 2.0 on Nikon F2AS
I really identified with this kid not wanting to get his hair cut when the haircutter gave me the one-finger salute
.Nikkor 500 4.0 IF-ED AIS on FM2
Nikkor 16 2.8 AIS on F2AS
Now some more recent ones. In truth, I have about 50 rolls ready to soup
.I am really excited to see the images as I think I have been doing some good work on the street with my Leicas/Widelux F7.
And yes I have no problem photographing children in my street photography. The parents were standing right beside me when I took this image. I never asked permission, and didn't give them my name.
Leica MP with 28 1.9 ASPH on 160 ASA.
One of the reasons I get involved in these discussions is it gives me a chance to share some photos and hopefully inspire others to get out there and do some street photography.
The best way to keep our rights as photographers is to exercise them.
Have fun and be safe everyone.
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Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Thanks for posting those Gregory ... very enjoyable!
I think as a street shooter you're quite unique in some ways. You don't agonise over what's right or wrong ... you just take the photograph!
I think as a street shooter you're quite unique in some ways. You don't agonise over what's right or wrong ... you just take the photograph!
kievman
Kievman
Gregory has proven a lot of people wrong as far as I am concerned. As a former photojournalist it was my job to take all the photos that SOME of the people on this thread object to. People in all kinds of uncomfortable situations you name it shootings street protests turned brawls, homeless people, people leaving the court house after being convicted etc. We were also expected to do features which were often candid shots take on the street or usually in some public space. Street photography at it's best. we would of course always ask the names of the people after taking the shot. and in my may years only a few objected in any way. Really good photojournalists would really try to capture the true essence of life in all of it's facets. Good and Bad. And a good street/documentary photographer often does the same, but without PAY, Does that make him a perv or voyour for doing it? And in this age of disappearing newspapers and photojournalists I truly believe there is a need for street photographers to fill in the gap left from the collapse of print media. Some day I hope to donate/sell some of my street work to the institution of my choice as a chronicle of American life during the turn of the 21st century.To limit myself because a very small majority of people object. would be stupid and self defeating - Kievman
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Lax Jought
Well-known
Lax Jought
Well-known
Arjay
Time Traveller
Kievman's statement is very interesting, because it highlights that documenting life used to be a very normal thing.
Used to be - now it may not be like that any more. Alas, many people today feel harrassed by cameras. This, however is not due to the activity of photographers, but because of the ubiquitous presence of CCTV surveillance in our cities.
It's not the photographers who are the perverts. This isn't going to change unless the public will start questioning if we really need a CCTV camera on every street corner.
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Lax Jought
Well-known
That, and also it could be the paparazzi phenomenon.
alistair.o
Well-known
I think that it is possible to be ham-strung by feelings. Let me offer you this scenario (over the top for this topic but it has merit). Very often when a soldier has been fighting, it is a discilpined action and reaction to circumstance; it is only when it is over or there is a break that thought and feeling comes to the fore. It is my desire to picture the moment(s) whatever, where-ever and whomever I/circumstance decide.
As she was going down I was lifting the camera - at the point you see she has no idea what has happened or where she is, but her impulsive action is to grab her belongings. Life.
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Sparrow
Veteran
Thanks Keith, I guess I posted that one to stir the pot a little bit.
And I am leaving my self open for critism for being insensitive. In truth what I find offensive to this image is that the people from the store are so more concerned with "me" taking the picture than the comforting or giving asstance to the injured man.
The fact that the side walk wasnt shoveled no doubt played a role in the mangers insistance that I delete the Images(taken with Leica MP and 35 1.4 Summilux
Look here is the thing , To me street is a social comentary. I never stage stuff, I never ask< I never explain. I just take the best pictures I can with what ever camera I happen to have with me at the time.
And yes I have used telephoto's for street work over the years, in fact I have used Nikkor Super telephoto's.
Nikkor 800 5.6 IF-ED AIS onnNIKon D3 hand held
Nikkor 800 5.6 IF_ED AIS on Nikon D3
There are limits/or boundaries I wont cross. Like I dont't look into people's houses. However if you brush your teeth on your deck in the middle of the day you are fair game in book.
The guy has acutally seen this photo and thinks it's hilariuos. I think he is kind of proud to be made famous.
Nikkor 800 5.6 IF-ED AIS with TC 301 on Nikon D3
Nikkor 800 5.6 IF-ED AIS wit TC-301 on Nikon D3
One of my favorite shots ever. One of my neibors kissing his dog on the forehead.
I took this in a clothing store while waiting for my daughter to come out of the change room. Store security asked me if I was taking pictures. "Oh no I said, I dont have my flash with me and it's to dark"
Leica M7 with 50 1.0 Noctilux. 1/30 sec @ 1.0 100 ASA film
Personally telephotos seem an odd for this type of stuff, I'm a little worried about slipping from candid to surveillance photography for one thing. But my main difficulty is the images themselves, they all seem to have an odd detachment to them, somehow the foreshortening excludes so much of the environment there's no context left to be interested in. A bit like those paparazzo shots of some starlet in Hello taken from so far off one can hardly tell, and don't care, who they are.