MCTuomey
Veteran
agree - this is a fine thread with many thoughtful posts
i don't have fixed rules for shooting in public places. no restrictions on subjects: children, the aged, homeless, whatever's interesting photographically (to the extent i'm able to envision). i always try to be as sensitive as possible to the moment. i smile, i engage, and shoot if it feels okay to do so. or i don't engage, and then shoot surreptitiously, sometimes from the hip or shoulder. sometimes i just get right in front of people and shoot away.
i've bought coffees, lunches, cigarettes, and other times just got the hell out because i made a poor decision to shoot.
i've had some difficult encounters, been challenged. depending on the situation, i've responded aggressively or submissively, whatever i think is called for.
i like to hitch myself to the flow, when i'm able to get it.
last year i snatched a couple clicks of a young arab woman in burka at a marketplace in my hometown. couple blocks down this fellow grabs me by the shoulder from behind, turns me around, and tells me i've insulted him and his wife. he's hot and right in my face. uncharacteristically calm, i simply said, "you know, your wife was radiant in that light at the corner, just beautiful. i'm sorry if i've insulted you. this is an old film camera so i can't delete the frames now, but i will later, you can be sure."
he melted away, smiling and saying, "no, no, it's okay, really."
i don't have fixed rules for shooting in public places. no restrictions on subjects: children, the aged, homeless, whatever's interesting photographically (to the extent i'm able to envision). i always try to be as sensitive as possible to the moment. i smile, i engage, and shoot if it feels okay to do so. or i don't engage, and then shoot surreptitiously, sometimes from the hip or shoulder. sometimes i just get right in front of people and shoot away.
i've bought coffees, lunches, cigarettes, and other times just got the hell out because i made a poor decision to shoot.
i've had some difficult encounters, been challenged. depending on the situation, i've responded aggressively or submissively, whatever i think is called for.
i like to hitch myself to the flow, when i'm able to get it.
last year i snatched a couple clicks of a young arab woman in burka at a marketplace in my hometown. couple blocks down this fellow grabs me by the shoulder from behind, turns me around, and tells me i've insulted him and his wife. he's hot and right in my face. uncharacteristically calm, i simply said, "you know, your wife was radiant in that light at the corner, just beautiful. i'm sorry if i've insulted you. this is an old film camera so i can't delete the frames now, but i will later, you can be sure."
he melted away, smiling and saying, "no, no, it's okay, really."
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braver
Well-known
Like what has been mentioned here I find that not being stealthy about it works best: as long as you're friendly and non-creepy people usually don't mind that much. Can't always bring myself to get as up close and personal as Winogrand did though, but he's my hero.
I sometimes use the 28mm effect: you can still get people in the frame without pointing the lens at them. But I too have to push myself to get close.
I'm interested in the point about not shooting kids. I don't see what's creepy about that? Kids are wonderful in their expressiveness. How would these shots be wrong? Seriously interested in the discussion BTW, not trying to make a point or anything...
I sometimes use the 28mm effect: you can still get people in the frame without pointing the lens at them. But I too have to push myself to get close.
I'm interested in the point about not shooting kids. I don't see what's creepy about that? Kids are wonderful in their expressiveness. How would these shots be wrong? Seriously interested in the discussion BTW, not trying to make a point or anything...
Jaques H
-
Hi Joao,
When you copy and paste, the forum software should show it as default colour for the skin you are in. (I think?).
Or why don't you type directly in the reply box?
DNG
Film Friendly
Thanks for the read! I read interesting comments as well.
I find it helps to genuinely smile and not be stealthily at all. I also liked James Nachtwey in the film Christian Frey made about him, he simply went up to people and shook their hand before retreating and continuing photographing. Gary Winogrand kept nervously fiddling his M4 and people probably thought he was just test driving it, so no one was alarmed. Saw that in a YouTube clip.
Normally I make sure I look clean but am wearing an old military coat with some extra gear stashed in the pockets, a belt bag with expensive stuff for extra safety. At times, when the weather got hot, I simply carried two cameras in plain sight and left the old empty coat in a cafe or a restaurant. I returned later, asking for it. Since it's old nobody wants it and I always got it back.
The bit about trying to get out of your comfort zone and developing yourself as a street photographer is my greatest challenge when it comes to shooting street, Sometimes I cannot even begin to focus, compose and expose, because I'm too chicken to take the shot at all.
In the end I think work gets easier once people see you're not evading them, by looking at them, working close up etc.
Street shooters with long lenses are the real chickens, I keep telling myself
Interesting points on how you work the street. I think being open is a plus. People can always get out your "VF" if they want to. I find I use the "Hip" method with my RF and 28 or 35 on it, but with my DSLR, I will use the 70-300, but, I am not hiding either. It just allows me to get at times, a better capture that I may not get if I were closer with a 28 or 35. Like a group of people eating and talking at an outdoor patio dinner. So being 50 feet away helps me get non-intrusive "Private" moments. But, then I am limited to more distant captures... Again.. I am always in plain view. I just feel better that way. I have nothing to hide.
I find street photography a bit challenging, because, the local town areas don't have a lot crowded streets. I may see, in an hour working a 3-5 block area.. a few dozen people at best. Even Downtown Indy is only really crowded when a outdoor event is going on. I have yet to go to downtown Indianapolis for a few hours... Mostly because of my time restraints. By, My RF and 28/50/90 will be with me when I do.
DNG
Film Friendly
MCTuomey
Veteran
street sheep (great shot, jaques!), kids, embraces, faces (anders, yes!)
all fair subjects. i agree with johan - it begs to be captured the more fleeting it is.
an aside: i have no idea why anyone would deliberately not shoot children. help me here. what am i missing?
all fair subjects. i agree with johan - it begs to be captured the more fleeting it is.
an aside: i have no idea why anyone would deliberately not shoot children. help me here. what am i missing?
DNG
Film Friendly
Well, at a ball park OK, Plenty of spectators and people with cameras. No biggie. Just don't go looking like a crackhead! Blend in the crowd. get some great images of kids playing ball.
But on the street in many areas it is taken as a "perv" photographer. Really !!
Lots of paranoid parents out there. And a mad parent is not a person you want to tangle with... One, LOUD "PERVERT" on a public street will cause all kinds of problems that may or may not get you arrested..regardless of your rights... Pick you battles wisely.
ramosa
B&W
Mike,
To begin, this is one of the best threads I have ever read on RFF—in that it moves past cameras and lenses to techniques and philosophies. Like you, I love street photography. And, like you, I am quite shy in many street situations. I have tried a few approaches to dealing with this and, more generally, with what “sine” refers to as “always skirting the edge of being invasive” in street photography.
First, while I have used a 28mm on my M8, I tend to use a 50mm and—believe it or not—have actually pondered using a 90mm. Using the 50, as compared to the 28, helps me feel less intrusive and less shy.
Second, I find that I’m much more confident (but not overly so, I assure you) when I’m in an urban center with lots of street activity—especially when it’s in a foreign country, where, ironically, I feel a greater closeness with people in general.
Third, as has been mentioned, scouting an area—or just figuring out a good scene and waiting for people to fill the area—can be very helpful, but that approach isn’t always practical (e.g., when you’re traveling about with a non-photographer).
Fourth, as also mentioned previously, I try to pretend that my point of interest (e.g., a couple) is not really my interest, which tends to defuse the couple’s attention to me.
Others have made some great recommendations, things I hope to learn from, including giving a friendly smile and, perhaps, even shooting with the camera not held to eye level.
Great thread. Thanks for starting it, Mike, and for helping it grow, everyone else ...
R
To begin, this is one of the best threads I have ever read on RFF—in that it moves past cameras and lenses to techniques and philosophies. Like you, I love street photography. And, like you, I am quite shy in many street situations. I have tried a few approaches to dealing with this and, more generally, with what “sine” refers to as “always skirting the edge of being invasive” in street photography.
First, while I have used a 28mm on my M8, I tend to use a 50mm and—believe it or not—have actually pondered using a 90mm. Using the 50, as compared to the 28, helps me feel less intrusive and less shy.
Second, I find that I’m much more confident (but not overly so, I assure you) when I’m in an urban center with lots of street activity—especially when it’s in a foreign country, where, ironically, I feel a greater closeness with people in general.
Third, as has been mentioned, scouting an area—or just figuring out a good scene and waiting for people to fill the area—can be very helpful, but that approach isn’t always practical (e.g., when you’re traveling about with a non-photographer).
Fourth, as also mentioned previously, I try to pretend that my point of interest (e.g., a couple) is not really my interest, which tends to defuse the couple’s attention to me.
Others have made some great recommendations, things I hope to learn from, including giving a friendly smile and, perhaps, even shooting with the camera not held to eye level.
Great thread. Thanks for starting it, Mike, and for helping it grow, everyone else ...
R
Bogotron
Established
Thanks, Ramosa and everybody. A lot of great recommendations and techniques.
I think it is important to be confident and to feel that you belong where you are and that you have a right to do what you're doing (which you do, in most cases!) I think if you're putting out negative energy on the street people will pick up on that. Smiling is definitely key; you don't have to smile all the time (my face would hurt), but just relax and enjoy yourself (I am guilty of furrowing my brow in concentration a little too much when shooting).
The thing I try to keep in mind is that people getting "upset" with my while I'm shooting is the exception, not the rule, and to not think too much; to rely on instinct and muscle memory when I'm out there. If you need to get the shot, don't think too much, just get it! Chances are you won't be killed as a result of it. Don't expect people to be upset, but anticipate it and be ready with an excuse, honest or otherwise. If things get hairy, walk away and don't beat yourself up over it.
I shoot people because I'm interested in people. I like fleeting interactions between people on the street, I like how they interact with the light and geometry around them, I like the way they express themselves, and I like the challenge of recognizing and capturing something interesting and unique in a split second.
Now to digress completely...
I was shooting wide-angle for a while (25mm) and I really enjoyed the fact that the lens barely needed to be focused and that you could be pretty close to your subject but still not necessarily have the camera trained straight on them. I think it's a good focal length for events and things of that sort (though now I use a 35 and refuse to spend another minute thinking about lenses, until the next GAS attack of course). There's almost an anonymity in the closeness, as weird as that sounds.
I think it is important to be confident and to feel that you belong where you are and that you have a right to do what you're doing (which you do, in most cases!) I think if you're putting out negative energy on the street people will pick up on that. Smiling is definitely key; you don't have to smile all the time (my face would hurt), but just relax and enjoy yourself (I am guilty of furrowing my brow in concentration a little too much when shooting).
The thing I try to keep in mind is that people getting "upset" with my while I'm shooting is the exception, not the rule, and to not think too much; to rely on instinct and muscle memory when I'm out there. If you need to get the shot, don't think too much, just get it! Chances are you won't be killed as a result of it. Don't expect people to be upset, but anticipate it and be ready with an excuse, honest or otherwise. If things get hairy, walk away and don't beat yourself up over it.
I shoot people because I'm interested in people. I like fleeting interactions between people on the street, I like how they interact with the light and geometry around them, I like the way they express themselves, and I like the challenge of recognizing and capturing something interesting and unique in a split second.
Now to digress completely...
I was shooting wide-angle for a while (25mm) and I really enjoyed the fact that the lens barely needed to be focused and that you could be pretty close to your subject but still not necessarily have the camera trained straight on them. I think it's a good focal length for events and things of that sort (though now I use a 35 and refuse to spend another minute thinking about lenses, until the next GAS attack of course). There's almost an anonymity in the closeness, as weird as that sounds.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Even today they're a noisy, easily and unnecessarily frightened, obnoxious minority. We were ALL kids once, and capturing that -- especially how kids interact with their parents -- is a significant part of why I feel compelled to do street work -- even if the fraction of images with kids in them is pretty small. Imagine The Family of Man with no pictures of kids. It's just unthinkable.
35/2.8 Biogon-C, ACROS, XTOL 1:1.
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Joao
Negativistic forever
gb hill
Veteran
I remember going to a function one time & there were of course several there with all sorts of cameras from digital p&s to dslr's. There was this really creepy dude with a dslr & the longest lens, Had to be at least a 300mm, but he would stand in a corner, almost like he was hiding, aim the camera & shoot! I think a lot of this fear stuff, as long as you have a camera with a short lens that doesn't look all intrusive, that most people don't really care. But when you go around armed like a sniper you stand out like some sort of weirdo & you will be noticed. I've never read that people thought of Winnogrand as a sort of perv. Just what a good photographer he was.
antiquark
Derek Ross
You're in good company. Even Steve McCurry has been confronted after taking a picture. If he can't take a picture without being abused, I doubt anybody can.
sircarl
Well-known
I love street photography, but I've virtually stopped taking pictures of children in public places. It isn't worth the hassle. Not only from parents. Twice recently in London I was chastised by schoolteachers who were supervising large groups of kids I was photographing. They told me quite confidently I "didn't have permission" from their parents to take their photos. The presumption, evidently, is that unless I have explicit permission, I am to assume that I don't. I was tempted to argue with them, but I could see I wouldn't get anywhere.
MCTuomey
Veteran
Such a shame isn't it, Carl? *semilog* said it well. our photographic world would be poorer lacking children.
Nikkor AIS
Nikkor AIS
You know, I've been a street photographer for over 20 years. I've always photographed old people, pets and kids. And garbage cans and old cars and trees and shadows on the wall ...OO.
I think where people get in trouble is when they try to be sneaky. This idea that carrying a Leica makes you invisible is funny to me. I'm part of the street. Sometimes hiding in plain sight is best.
It's really a shame that some with paranoia want to pass it on to others who want to pursue the art of street photography. Be brave. Be confident. Be safe. It takes guts to photograph the human condition. It's important that that we document the moments. Even if sometimes it marks our soul to witness them. There can also be joy.
Gregory
I think where people get in trouble is when they try to be sneaky. This idea that carrying a Leica makes you invisible is funny to me. I'm part of the street. Sometimes hiding in plain sight is best.
It's really a shame that some with paranoia want to pass it on to others who want to pursue the art of street photography. Be brave. Be confident. Be safe. It takes guts to photograph the human condition. It's important that that we document the moments. Even if sometimes it marks our soul to witness them. There can also be joy.
Gregory
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Nikkor AIS
Nikkor AIS
I reject the idea that using a long lens makes me a sniper. I use the right tool for the right job. I'm not trying to hide. The fact is, you can get shots with a Nikkor 300 2.0 IF-ED AIS that no rangefinder can get, and vice versa. At the end of the day, it's the photographer not the gear that makes the image.
Have a great day everyone. I'm off to class then I'm off to go shooting. I really love the rangefinder forum and enjoy these discussions very much.
Gregory
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reiki_
Well-known
great images .
xxloverxx
Shoot.
If I felt it would make a good photo, yes, without a doubt. I tend to leave my emotions at home when doing street photography.
gb hill
Veteran
Point is well taken! I think ones attitude & body language plays a big part on how people react to you on the street. I tend to think that sometimes people use long lenses because they are afraid to get close to the subject & they feel they still have to be sneaky so they wont be noticed! Perhaps it's the aura they give off! Of course I may totally be wrong about the person but I feel more comfortable to just be there & act among others! Smile & be friendly! You have some great shots BTW!