Sparrow
Veteran
... I would put money on more people believing liberal to be centrist, people see liberal-democrat and think they're the same thing, if they think at all ... try telling anyone Thatcher was a liberal and see what happens
Michael Markey
Veteran
Well she certainly wasn`t Conservative was she ...which is why they dumped her when they could.
I`m no longer sure what liberal means today ...in political terms .
Oh ... homeless people ....don`t think I`ve ever taken a photograph.
Sparrow
Veteran
... and if you did I suppose treating them with the same courtesy as one treats everyone else is ethical enough
Bike Tourist
Well-known
I engage with homeless people the same way as with others, I converse with them and ask to take their photograph. They usually agree. If not, I move on.
As to photographs changing the social landscape, I very much doubt it. War photography has a long tradition as old as photography itself. Have you noticed we still have wars?
As to photographs changing the social landscape, I very much doubt it. War photography has a long tradition as old as photography itself. Have you noticed we still have wars?
rbsinto
Well-known
I've been photographing Toronto's Homeless People for many years.
It started because while downtown here in Toronto on business, I noticed a homeless person sitting at busy main intersection begging for change.
He was essentially surrounded by a crowd of pedestrians waiting to cross, and as I watched it became apparent that they were all deliberately ignoring him. The light changed and they all walked away without one even so much as glancing down at him.
It occurred to me that the homeless were essentially invisible to the rest of us becaue in most cases it was just easier to look away or ignore them, than to perhaps make eye contact and confront an unpleasant situation.
I decided then to start photographing them and perhaps in some small way make them more visible.
The first time I went out, I drove to a street where I knew a number of homeless persons "lived", pulled over, rolled down the window, took a shot with a long lens, and quickly drove away.
I stopped a few blocks away and was overcome with shame at what I had just done. not because I had taken the picture, but because of the manner in which I had taken it.
I realized that to get any meaningful photos I'd have to first get to know the people I was photographing.
So I drove back, parked my car, got out and walked up to the first street person I saw, introduced myself, shook his hand, asked his name and began to talk. We spoke for a long and with his permission I took some pictures. He was kind enough to give me a lot of insight into his life on the street as well as lessons in street ettiquette and even walked back with me to the colony of street people I had first photographed and introduced me to them. For the next couple of years, I spent a great deal of my free time downtown, getting to know many street people and photographing them.
Except in cases where people are sleeping, or perhaps unconscious, I always ask permission, and if it is refused, I don't snipe from long range. And if I'm given permission to take a shot, but asked not to show it publicly, that request is always respected.
And yes, I often do give them some money, but it is never contingent on permission to shoot. I always make that clear. They'll get the dollar or two regardless.
Have my pictures made a difference? For the most part no, but I didn't expect I'd change the world when I started doing this self-assignment anyway. On the few occasions when I've lectured at photo clubs and shown a photo-essay, the comments I've received about my pictures "making those who are invisible, visible" are at least a tiny step, and I suppose if I've heightened even one person's perception about homelessness it's something.
It started because while downtown here in Toronto on business, I noticed a homeless person sitting at busy main intersection begging for change.
He was essentially surrounded by a crowd of pedestrians waiting to cross, and as I watched it became apparent that they were all deliberately ignoring him. The light changed and they all walked away without one even so much as glancing down at him.
It occurred to me that the homeless were essentially invisible to the rest of us becaue in most cases it was just easier to look away or ignore them, than to perhaps make eye contact and confront an unpleasant situation.
I decided then to start photographing them and perhaps in some small way make them more visible.
The first time I went out, I drove to a street where I knew a number of homeless persons "lived", pulled over, rolled down the window, took a shot with a long lens, and quickly drove away.
I stopped a few blocks away and was overcome with shame at what I had just done. not because I had taken the picture, but because of the manner in which I had taken it.
I realized that to get any meaningful photos I'd have to first get to know the people I was photographing.
So I drove back, parked my car, got out and walked up to the first street person I saw, introduced myself, shook his hand, asked his name and began to talk. We spoke for a long and with his permission I took some pictures. He was kind enough to give me a lot of insight into his life on the street as well as lessons in street ettiquette and even walked back with me to the colony of street people I had first photographed and introduced me to them. For the next couple of years, I spent a great deal of my free time downtown, getting to know many street people and photographing them.
Except in cases where people are sleeping, or perhaps unconscious, I always ask permission, and if it is refused, I don't snipe from long range. And if I'm given permission to take a shot, but asked not to show it publicly, that request is always respected.
And yes, I often do give them some money, but it is never contingent on permission to shoot. I always make that clear. They'll get the dollar or two regardless.
Have my pictures made a difference? For the most part no, but I didn't expect I'd change the world when I started doing this self-assignment anyway. On the few occasions when I've lectured at photo clubs and shown a photo-essay, the comments I've received about my pictures "making those who are invisible, visible" are at least a tiny step, and I suppose if I've heightened even one person's perception about homelessness it's something.
Dan Daniel
Well-known
You might appreciate this entry by John Free about running into someone who he had photographed a couple decades earlier who was still on the rails and still had his photo. Unfortunately for some reason there is no way I can link to just the entry, so you need to scroll down. It is the entry right after the color photo for the Cuba entry, a man's hands holding a photo-
http://www.johnfreephotography.com/blog/
goamules
Well-known
Here is a wetplate philanthropic project to help the homeless. "This documentary is from interviews with 30 individuals who use the St. Francis Center. This film is intended to show the reality of being homeless and the struggles they face daily. Everyone in this project gave their stories willingly ..."
http://www.neighboursproject.com/
And how you can put your money where your mouth is:
http://www.neighboursproject.com/donate.html
http://www.neighboursproject.com/
And how you can put your money where your mouth is:
http://www.neighboursproject.com/donate.html
hausen
Well-known
Roger, can you send me some recommendations on where one can see media demonizing the poor? Actually most of the poorer people and media here blame colonisation actually. I live in the city and actually talk to street people quite often because I shoot early in the morning. How about you, ever venture out? Me I feel the family man with a couple of kids, struggling to make ends meet through a GFC deserves the same rights/respect as the homeless. Should street photogs be allowed to snap photos of him and his family just because he has a house?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Dave,
Highlight 1:
Daily Mail
Fox News
Daily Telegraph
...will do for a start. Sorry, not familiar with NZ media,
Highlight 2: Yes. Though I don't see homeless people here in rural France the way I did in (say) Canterbury, Delhi or Prague.
Highlight 3: Eh?
What's a GFC?
Cheers,
R.
hausen
Well-known
Those are the papers, where are the articles? Rural France I suppose that gives you a unique view on social policies around the world, I hope you continue to tithe. Me thinks though doth protest to much!
GFC Global Financial Crisis. Highlight 3, I can't see why a homeless person, who I had said numerous times I wouldn't shoot, deserves not to have his/her photo taken anymore than Joe Public? Understand the argument about whether they can protect themselves but who can protect them self from being photographed? Is one instance more/less ethical than the other
GFC Global Financial Crisis. Highlight 3, I can't see why a homeless person, who I had said numerous times I wouldn't shoot, deserves not to have his/her photo taken anymore than Joe Public? Understand the argument about whether they can protect themselves but who can protect them self from being photographed? Is one instance more/less ethical than the other
Mr_Toad
Fluffy Marsupial
Googling always delivers the usual suspects on both sides of any juicy debate. 
For example, here's a link from Gooogle that pertains to y'all's current topic...but I am no expert on any of this, so who knows what is truth anymore.
http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/02/01/watch-fox-news-push-3-food-stamp-myths-in-under/202372
Robt.
For example, here's a link from Gooogle that pertains to y'all's current topic...but I am no expert on any of this, so who knows what is truth anymore.
http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/02/01/watch-fox-news-push-3-food-stamp-myths-in-under/202372
Robt.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Personally (of course), ethics are very important.
I believe it is grotesque to say that the end result is all that matters, and "who cares" about ethics on how the end result was achieved.
Anybody may use any subject matter they want, but ethics are very very important.
Whether photographing the homeless is ethical is key to answering what it is that the photographer is trying to achieve and why they are trying to achieve it.
Otherwise, there is no sense other than egocentrism: the "I don't care how it was done, all I care is that it was done" stand is very dangerous at worst, intellectually lazy at best.
If the words "ethics" and "intellectually" are "too much", then the problem is a very weak grasp of the importance of intersocial communication.
I believe it is grotesque to say that the end result is all that matters, and "who cares" about ethics on how the end result was achieved.
Anybody may use any subject matter they want, but ethics are very very important.
Whether photographing the homeless is ethical is key to answering what it is that the photographer is trying to achieve and why they are trying to achieve it.
Otherwise, there is no sense other than egocentrism: the "I don't care how it was done, all I care is that it was done" stand is very dangerous at worst, intellectually lazy at best.
If the words "ethics" and "intellectually" are "too much", then the problem is a very weak grasp of the importance of intersocial communication.
goamules
Well-known
The original questions, prior to inevitable off tangent bickering was:
1. Sometimes because they want to help them.
2. They try to achieve a way to help them.
3. I find it ethically right to help homeless.
Did anyone even LOOK at the link I posted, http://www.neighboursproject.com/, where a "homeless photographer" is doing something for them, in his work?
1. Sometimes because they want to help them.
2. They try to achieve a way to help them.
3. I find it ethically right to help homeless.
Did anyone even LOOK at the link I posted, http://www.neighboursproject.com/, where a "homeless photographer" is doing something for them, in his work?
rhl-oregon
Cameras Guitars Wonders
Thanks for the reorientation to the real OP questions, Garrett. I bookmarked your link to look but have not yet done so. Thanks for that reminder, toff to do it now.
ff to do it now.
kuuan
loves old lenses
GREAT photographs using wet plates, and by the looks of it a very good social project, thank you for linking it Garrett
goamules
Well-known
I liked it too, thanks for looking! It shows that there are ways to make a win-win out of all this.
rhl-oregon
Cameras Guitars Wonders
Yes, it shows what an individual can do with social initiative, artistic goal, and a plan for disseminating results and directing donations.
Once the Community Media project organizers here create their website--one of the components being the documentation of efforts to create safe legal places to sleep in a city that forbids, harasses, and tickets "camping," I'll post links.
Once the Community Media project organizers here create their website--one of the components being the documentation of efforts to create safe legal places to sleep in a city that forbids, harasses, and tickets "camping," I'll post links.
Ranchu
Veteran
No one has been able to cough up any answers to these yet, if any helpful photographers are in the mood.
finguanzo
Well-known
If you were rich, would you want to have your picture taken candidly without your knowledge, and posted to some photo gear forum?
YES or NO?
Would you want your photo taken WITH your knowledge, but without your consent, and be unable to stop them from taking it?
YES or NO?
Works about the same..
Im just saying..
YES or NO?
Would you want your photo taken WITH your knowledge, but without your consent, and be unable to stop them from taking it?
YES or NO?
Works about the same..
Im just saying..
Ranchu
Veteran
That is a deflection, like the others. Still won't answer?