street photography + harassment...

[Thardy]

I read through this thread and noticed that many photographers said they would call the police if a situation turned ugly. Recent news says that police officers do not have a duty to project citizens.

"Protect and serve" is pretty much over. Be careful out there.

 

[jsrockit]

If at all possible I wait untill the last possible moment pre-visualize and quickly raise the camera and focus/click..

Which can be done.. lightening quick with practice.

I use this approach with 35mm and 50mm lenses... but you tend to use what seems like every focal length ever made. Are you that proficient with the longer lenses too or does the added focal length not require you to be so discreet?

 

[pieter]

I never had any problems taking pictures of strangers without asking 🙂

I think shooting from the hip is stupid - not having control on what you are doing doesn't count for me 🙂

Regards,

Boris

This kind of photo and the way you post it on a website is exactly what I find unpleasant about streetphotography. It doesn't really strike me as a decent thing to do.
This elderly lady obviously doesn't like having her picture taken, is it really too much to ask for the decency to respect that wish? And then you even make fun of her by posting her picture on a public forum in a thread about the very thing she feels quite strongly about.
I guess you could say it is within your legal rights to do so. But then again there are many indecent things that are perfectly legal.

Maybe I shouldn't call you out like this, as it's not really a nice thing to do either but then again I guess since it's perfectly legal to do so, maybe I shouldn't have any such reservations about it?

 

[user237428934]

Maybe I shouldn't call you out like this, as it's not really a nice thing to do either but then again I guess since it's perfectly legal to do so, maybe I shouldn't have any such reservations about it?

It's legal to start you lawnmower at 7:00 on a saturday morning. Good neighbors won't do this.

 

[dave lackey]

This kind of photo and the way you post it on a website is exactly what I find unpleasant about streetphotography. It doesn't really strike me as a decent thing to do.
This elderly lady obviously doesn't like having her picture taken, is it really too much to ask for the decency to respect that wish? And then you even make fun of her by posting her picture on a public forum in a thread about the very thing she feels quite strongly about.
I guess you could say it is within your legal rights to do so. But then again there are many indecent things that are perfectly legal.

Maybe I shouldn't call you out like this, as it's not really a nice thing to do either but then again I guess since it's perfectly legal to do so, maybe I shouldn't have any such reservations about it?

Ummm...a couple of things. First, we, the viewers know nothing of the situation as the photo was taken. Secondly, you do not know the photographer personally as I do and I can assure you he is the most ethical, kind and loving photographer I know. Having said that, posting photos on a photography forum in seriousness is not making fun of the motif. No more than posting photos of naked women being exploitation. It all depends on many things and the photo of which you speak was interesting and fair for discussion. It was not the photographer making fun of the motif.

If we had censureship on everyone for something as minor as this, well, what is the purpose of photography? IMHO.:angel:

 

[Highway 61]

This kind of photo and the way you post it on a website is exactly what I find unpleasant about streetphotography

The point would rather be : is this photo interesting ? Was it worth shooting that old woman in spite of her obvious refusal ? What does want the photographer to show ? What is the message of the photo ? How was the light ? Is it a photo which can raise up emotions ? Is it poetic ? How is the composition ? Can we stand in front of it for a long while to get all what the photo has to tell us ?

Etc.

Does street photography have to obey the common rules when it comes to what makes a photograph interesting, or not ?

[From someone who shoots in the streets a lot].

 

[pieter]

Ummm...a couple of things. First, we, the viewers know nothing of the situation as the photo was taken. Secondly, you do not know the photographer personally as I do and I can assure you he is the most ethical, kind and loving photographer I know. Having said that, posting photos on a photography forum in seriousness is not making fun of the motif. No more than posting photos of naked women being exploitation. It all depends on many things and the photo of which you speak was interesting and fair for discussion. It was not the photographer making fun of the motif.

If we had censureship on everyone for something as minor as this, well, what is the purpose of photography? IMHO.:angel:

Yes, I guess it could even be staged in the sense that it is his own grandmother and he asked her to act as if she didnt like her picture taken. In that case my comments would be missing the mark. All I see is an elderly lady that does not like to have her picture taken, and she even seems upset about it. I could even imagine her being upset about it for a longer period of time. But hey, it's all perfectly legal, so it must be o.k.!

Also, am I really that wrong about him being humorous about this picture and the reaction of the lady? To me his comment to this picture seems be intended as a humorous comment. As well as using exactly this thread to post it in. By posting it here the context changes, making what he is saying with this photo different than if he would post it somewhere else. In a sense this woman's discomfort is exactly the point he is trying to make.

As for the intended motif, even the greatest art can be quite rude or exploitative. And sometimes I can even agree that it was worth it. In this case I only see a disrespect for this lady's wishes (IF I'm reading her emotions right and IF she is not acting those emotions), and while it is a competent photo, in this case I question whether the artistic weigth is worth it.

One last thing to add: another problem is that this picture could now start to lead it's own life, as it were. The fact that I am now using it as a grandstand and example of rude photography means that this lady's image has become more than the original photographer intended. After posting it online the photographer has no control over it any more. Somebody else could start using it in rude and unethical ways. The lady might not even like that her image now serves as my argument. As long as you can't really control what this picture will say because you cant control thecontext is all the more reason as to why this lady's wishes deserve some respect.

 

[upceci]

With street photography there is no reason to be aggressive and annoying when the results are not going to make anyone any money or bring them fame and recognition. One might as well enjoy the experience of street photography because there are just too many street photographers and their street photos.

 

[gho]

I do not know what is significant or interesting about taking a picture of a stranger in the street and showing their misery, discontent or negative reaction to the interaction. When I look at a photograph, I try to put myself into the shoes of the picture taker and quite often it is not clear to me what the motivation behind the picture was. Moreover, I myself start feeling uncomfortable when looking at those pictures. Sure, I tried it myself but did not find it worthwhile to harp on it more thoroughly. I would not publish these pictures anyhow. I talked with others (photographers) about it. They said: "Maybe they just want to show that they have balls" and something along those lines.

Or the general concept of street photography has simply become something like "Running around with a specific camera brand and trying to emulate Bruce Gilden or Henri Cartier-Bresson". Or maybe Capa's concept of "getting close" is meanwhile taken to literary. To me that saying does not necessarily mean shoving a lens into the face and banging on it with a flash. 🙂

I hope the workshop guys and gals out there are doing a good job by helping the participants along with developing an own unique photographic vision instead of producing a steady stream of Brucies. I think that would also be in his sense, but who knows.

As a last note I would like say something about "Not leaving a bad trail for others that follow." For example, if you are approaching a specific subject matter in a disrespectful and rude way, it is remembered. And it may make it difficult for others to explore that subject matter photographically in a more serious manner.

 

[Roger Hicks]

With street photography there is no reason to be aggressive and annoying when the results are not going to make anyone any money or bring them fame and recognition. One might as well enjoy the experience of street photography because there are just too many street photographers and their street photos.

So: money, fame and recognition DO justify being aggressive and annoying?

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I do not know what is significant or interesting about taking a picture of a stranger in the street and showing their misery, discontent or negative reaction to the interaction. When I look at a photograph, I try to put myself into the shoes of the picture taker and quite often it is not clear to me what the motivation behind the picture was. Moreover, I myself start feeling uncomfortable when looking at those pictures. Sure, I tried it myself but did not find it worthwhile to harp on it more thoroughly. I would not publish these pictures anyhow. I talked with others (photographers) about it. They said: "Maybe they just want to show that they have balls" and something along those lines.

Or the general concept of street photography has simply become something like "Running around with a specific camera brand and trying to emulate Bruce Gilden or Henri Cartier-Bresson". Or maybe Capa's concept of "getting close" is meanwhile taken to literary. To me that saying does not necessarily mean shoving a lens into the face and banging on it with a flash. 🙂

I hope the workshop guys and gals out there are doing a good job by helping the participants along with developing an own unique photographic vision instead of producing a steady stream of Brucies. I think that would also be in his sense, but who knows.

As a last note I would like say something about "Not leaving a bad trail for others that follow." For example, if you are approaching a specific subject matter in a disrespectful and rude way, it is remembered. And it may make it difficult for others to explore that subject matter photographically in a more serious manner.

Exactly!

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

NEVER shoot from the hip. It's sneaky, and makes it seem like you have something to hide. Make it obvious that you're a photographer

There is *nothing* wrong with street photography. So don't hide.

Agreed.

Cheers,

R.

 

[upceci]

So: money, fame and recognition DO justify being aggressive and annoying?

Cheers,

R.

The paparazzi are a good example but then being people's paparazzi without any promise of reward seems a little strange. However, as someone mentioned above, the thrill of feeling empowered by taking photos of people without their permission could be the buzz some people want.

 

[dave lackey]

Yes, I guess it could even be staged in the sense that it is his own grandmother and he asked her to act as if she didnt like her picture taken. In that case my comments would be missing the mark. All I see is an elderly lady that does not like to have her picture taken, and she even seems upset about it. I could even imagine her being upset about it for a longer period of time. But hey, it's all perfectly legal, so it must be o.k.!

Also, am I really that wrong about him being humorous about this picture and the reaction of the lady? To me his comment to this picture seems be intended as a humorous comment. As well as using exactly this thread to post it in. By posting it here the context changes, making what he is saying with this photo different than if he would post it somewhere else. In a sense this woman's discomfort is exactly the point he is trying to make.

As for the intended motif, even the greatest art can be quite rude or exploitative. And sometimes I can even agree that it was worth it. In this case I only see a disrespect for this lady's wishes (IF I'm reading her emotions right and IF she is not acting those emotions), and while it is a competent photo, in this case I question whether the artistic weigth is worth it.

One last thing to add: another problem is that this picture could now start to lead it's own life, as it were. The fact that I am now using it as a grandstand and example of rude photography means that this lady's image has become more than the original photographer intended. After posting it online the photographer has no control over it any more. Somebody else could start using it in rude and unethical ways. The lady might not even like that her image now serves as my argument. As long as you can't really control what this picture will say because you cant control thecontext is all the more reason as to why this lady's wishes deserve some respect.

Well, I think we tend to agree a lot on street photography and my own values of ethics being a photographer. I find Bruce G's work distasteful when people are startled and angry but that is a well-known trademark of his. The photo of the old woman with a walking stick may or may not be in bad taste the way it was taken. We, the viewers, just do not know the circumstances. I can imagine a broad spectrum of how this photo could have happened, ranging from poor taste to good reportage. Would this one image be a problem if the photographer were riding down the street with a video cam and she was photographed as part of the video taken from a passing car? Probably not but being a still photograph, it is all we have to look at and ponder about the situation.

IMHO, the image is more reportage than art. Or just a snapshot. How one takes a post on a forum, or indeed, any image posted is one's own personal opinion. But, I would not go so far as to condemn anyone over this particular photo.:angel:

Personally, I feel that photography can be handled in an infinite number of ways along a distribution curve and I tend to fall somewhere in the middle as with most things. Extremes do not interest me, nor do they deserve comment from me. But, then, I am from The Deep South.

 

[Highway 61]

Or the general concept of street photography has simply become something like "Running around with a specific camera brand and trying to emulate Bruce Gilden or Henri Cartier-Bresson".

Yes, probably, although Cartier-Bresson and Bruce Gilden don't have much in common.

 

[DNG]

I do not know what is significant or interesting about taking a picture of a stranger in the street and showing their misery, discontent or negative reaction to the interaction. When I look at a photograph, I try to put myself into the shoes of the picture taker and quite often it is not clear to me what the motivation behind the picture was. Moreover, I myself start feeling uncomfortable when looking at those pictures. Sure, I tried it myself but did not find it worthwhile to harp on it more thoroughly. I would not publish these pictures anyhow. I talked with others (photographers) about it. They said: "Maybe they just want to show that they have balls" and something along those lines.

Or the general concept of street photography has simply become something like "Running around with a specific camera brand and trying to emulate Bruce Gilden or Henri Cartier-Bresson". Or maybe Capa's concept of "getting close" is meanwhile taken to literary. To me that saying does not necessarily mean shoving a lens into the face and banging on it with a flash. 🙂

I hope the workshop guys and gals out there are doing a good job by helping the participants along with developing an own unique photographic vision instead of producing a steady stream of Brucies. I think that would also be in his sense, but who knows.

As a last note I would like say something about "Not leaving a bad trail for others that follow." For example, if you are approaching a specific subject matter in a disrespectful and rude way, it is remembered. And it may make it difficult for others to explore that subject matter photographically in a more serious manner.

too serious man.....

no one is going to spoil someone else's experiences.
many many SP are way considerate than not....
why not go out with any brand camera and a 35 of 50 fov and see what SP is all about... for a few months.
It is about capturing the energy of the moment, Not asking what the photographer thought when they took it. You are on the wrong end of why you look at any art or photograph.
Look for your interpretation of the image.... NOT, why it was taken, or the philosophy that photographer might have while taking it.

me thinks, you think too much, and just go out and take a ton of photos instead to explore a genre, rather than build a false impression about a genre you have not given an honest try first.

Oh, I sure to flamed for this reply... being not my style.... but, sheesh.... come on ......:bang:

 

[nikonosguy]

all good street photographers use either a leica or hexar af - they shoot from the hip and only use b/w film

😎 😛 😉

 

[Rick Waldroup]

Such strange responses to street photography.

I am not a pervert. I am not a voyeur. I am not some egomaniac who has to prove I have a set of balls to go along with my fancy cameras. My intent is to never exploit or demean people in any way. The scenes that unfold before me may play a part in that, but I do not. It is never my goal to make people uncomfortable with my street photography. If I do that, then I have failed in executing the technique and passion that is unique to me.

I simply document what I see before me. I hardly ever title my photos because it is rare when I want to influence how the viewer sees or influence what they think about one of my shots.

Street photography is a beautiful art form. Perhaps a lot of the negativity that some folks have to it speaks volumes about their misconceptions about the intent and purpose of street photographers. At that point they need to look in the mirror and face their own suspicions and paranoia about themselves.

 

[haempe]

Does street photography have to obey the common rules when it comes to what makes a photograph interesting, or not ?

Does street photography have to obey the common rules of human coexistence?
Is the success of the photographer more worth than the right of the subject not to be ashamed?

I find it remarkable that the unasked pictures usually show the weak and defenseless ...
but calling the cops and describe it as harassment when someone don't let themself exploit by you?

Argh, disgusting thread...

 

[taskoni]

This kind of photo and the way you post it on a website is exactly what I find unpleasant about streetphotography. It doesn't really strike me as a decent thing to do.
This elderly lady obviously doesn't like having her picture taken, is it really too much to ask for the decency to respect that wish? And then you even make fun of her by posting her picture on a public forum in a thread about the very thing she feels quite strongly about.
I guess you could say it is within your legal rights to do so. But then again there are many indecent things that are perfectly legal.

Maybe I shouldn't call you out like this, as it's not really a nice thing to do either but then again I guess since it's perfectly legal to do so, maybe I shouldn't have any such reservations about it?

Dear Pieter,

You said it very well and I am with you in some of your thoughts on the subject.
Anyway, my friend Dave Lackey is right that you are judging the photo not knowing anything about the situation it is made and you are right as we are all expecting the photograph to bring message on it's own, with no explanation needed. I posted this picture as example of my comment on shooting from the hip vs shooting straight (if I can put it this way).
It might be interesting for you to know that the old lady's reaction was not addressed to me personally - it was addressed to a group of kids making fun of her. I have only this shot as I quickly moved among those kids but stupidly not including them in the frame - bad decision of the photographer 🙂
Anyway, someone said this picture doesn't bring out anything where I disagree - it brought (and brings) emotions (not necessarily pleasure) to you and other people, so it must be something in it - anger? 🙂
If I have had shot it from the hip I could have achieved a more dynamic
and dramatic angle, but my goal was to put myself into those kid's shoes and as you see I have succeeded to a certain degree. You feel the anger, right?

BTW, I really like this shot as it is special to me. You guys feel free to dislike it if you wish!

Regards,

Boris