street photography + harassment...

Nikkor AIS said:
Cameosis,
I thought this discussion was about being harressed for taking photo on the street..? And how to deal with those types of situations..
Click to expand...

Some people will go out of their way to discredit the art of street photography with baseless reasoning.

I've been harassed a few times for taking photos and only two times did it escalate that the police were involved.

I've de-escalated situations by telling an attacker that the photo was already uploaded to the internet (saying the radio trigger uploaded it via my iphone). Other times I just handed them my card and engaged in polite conversation. A Nation of Islam guy and some of his drunk buddies went after me once and THEY flagged down an officer only for the officer to tell them I was well within my right to take photographs. They were belligerent and threatening so the officer was inclined to arrest them but I asked for them to not be arrested.

Another time, an officer accused me of being a pervert. Mind you, I never "hip shoot" or try to be sneaky.

More often than not, it's best to just walk away. There are some rare times that a conversation will turn into something positive. Use your best judgment.

And all of this is with me wearing my Reuters badge, which does help resolved situations. (I work for them but I am not a company photographer.)
 
You can't please everyone. That's the short answer. People have found it flattering and even posed extra for me, and people have become belligerent as you just explained.

That's life. Don't get your confidence beat because of it. Their belligerence does not disregard your art or craft. Keep shooting, and keep experiencing all the funny things life seems to throw at you, including those who become hostile to your camera.

And there's always pepper spray.
 
"All those young photographers who are at work in the world, determined upon the capture of actuality, do not know that they are agents of Death."

or do they?
 
hellomikmik said:
"All those young photographers who are at work in the world, determined upon the capture of actuality, do not know that they are agents of Death."
Click to expand...

Boah, you are tossing Roland Barthes into the mix. Could you please explain what he actually meant with that statement?
 
a few people, without words, did not care to have their photo taken, but, they did not pursue the matter, and went on their way. In USA, as long as you are on "Public" property, this is legal.

But, if someone ASKS me not to take their photo, I'm OK with that also... plenty of others to photograph that don't mind.


Candid: Monument Circle: Indianapolis, IN 9-1-2012 by Peter Arbib, on Flickr


Candid: Monument Circle: Indianapolis, IN 9-1-2012 by Peter Arbib, on Flickr


4-24-2012-Dwtn Indy-at the Circle by Peter Arbib, on Flickr

and for fun

Candid: Monument Circle: Indianapolis, IN 9-1-2012 by Peter Arbib, on Flickr
 
@Gregory: You have quite a lot of thoughts going on. One of those things that connected to me was what you wrote about taking pictures "shooting" or whatever the disabled. I once was at a wedding where a "disabled" person was participating and I thought about that "rule" not to shoot people in that condition. But WTF, they are part of the game, aren't they? So I happily took a photograph. Indeed I thought it would be extremely disrespectful to leave her out. Indeed I am so fed up with most images displayed in public space that have so less in common with how the condition in life as observed on the street - "the least common denominator" - in general actually is.

So it is good to hear your voice. We may not agree in all things, but it is good to hear what you got to say.
 
Thanks you guys..

I really appreciate it..


Your support means a lot..

Got a new girlfreind that just tonight told me she is going to set me up a blog..

Untill than anyone who wants is welcome to facebook /contact me..

Gregory Rogalsky /Rogalsky Photography/Rogalsky Combatives International/Rogaltacdesign@smugmug.com..









Just tonight while out I was thinking that I want to be able to shoot in "any" store I go in.. And to that effect I have started to openly photograph in the my local stores..

Got kicked out of the Wall mart.. but ...that's no big deal ... Wallmart sucks anyways..










This kid was super cute.. just talking to the kid and than she was all smiles.. And than her mom joined and and started to "talk" for her.. A very nice moment...




How many of us will not photography kids because we "fear" the reaction from the parents.

And to me that is really sad..





No one has discussed a situation when the person who dosnt want to be photogrpahed is one of your freinds...


This is the case here.. My pal Don after having his SUV broken into..

In the same parking lot.. I had my car broken in twice and than finally it was stolen from this very parking lot...and I know exactly how it feels..

I lost a valuble Japenses forged/folder sword.. A twin lens Rollie. 2.8 . And several gi's and training swords/knives..

And worst of all my son's football I bought him for his birthday..









Don hates having his picture taken. (candids anyways) . In fact ..He hates it when I photograph other people (candids) , when I am with him as we are going out for coffee after class..



For a long time he never said anything..
But I could sense it bugged him..



He thinks it's incredibly rude of me.. and finds the fact that I dont ask disrespectful..

And I am pretty sure he is embarred to be seen with me.. When I stop and photograph a "peice of art on the ground as I often do..

The situation is complicated by the fact that he older than me.. by quite a bit.. But I am also his Martial Arts teacher. Rogalsky Combatives TM

One time we where going for a coffee before class.and I saw an awsome Tim Horten Cup which I "had " to take a photo of.. ( I am doing a coffee table book of the images of coffee cups I have taken over the years)

Anyways.., So I am shooting this photo.. And I am using the OM-D so I got me face down , eye in the veiwfinder.. And I hear a truck that pulled up and wanted to get by me to park.. Now, I am not trying to be rude.. But I wasnt done getting my shot.. And I dont think I am going to be very long.. So I keep shooting..
While it might sound easy.. It's not like the cup is moving or anything..

Often the exposer is reallly tricky.. especially with digital, so I am bracketing.. And than I switched over to the grainy art settings. And suddenly Don tells... "GREG" quite load and agressive like..


That word.. And the way it was said brings back bad **** for me.
Feeling of anxiousness onness and dread.. As if my dad had yelled 30 years ago. when I had done something wrong.. Like just exsisiting..

To this day, this is why I prefer Gregory..

At any rate..

To piut it mldly.. and frankly, it startled me.. and looked up and saw Don walkig away muttering under his breath..

As far as techer and student relationship . ."Not very good."..


Now what he did, and how he did it has been dealt with.. Since than.
All I can say.. as long time Martial arts practitioner and teacher.. The thing that passed though my mind in that moment. That not in a million years, would never ever EVER talk like that , to my any one of my teacher's..




And now that warm cozy art feeling is dead and gone... And I got the instant cold sweat going..
And as if on cue.. Now the truck revs it's engine .. Like I didnt see the hug shadow of it's impossing pressense and shiny black paint..

Some what satisfied and feeling I could have done more.. I am more or less done..
And feeling a little less artistic after having my student yell at me , in public.. no less..
So turning my head like with an expression of .. I dont think I quite got all of it..
I look up and finally step out of the way of the truck.
It was than the warm feeling came back as I couldnt help notice there is a guy driving and "girl" beside him..

Now, I hate to cause trouble...:p, but the girl was smiling at me..

Or just smiling.. How does one tell unless you walk over and meet ?


So I gracefully move from in front of the truck and over to her side..( I move pretty smooth for a big guy.)
And now "I" am open curious to what will happen.. So as I walk over to her window she already has rolling it down..


First thing she say's is..

"I LOVE PHOTOGRAPHY." .

I am not going to go on and on about how/what she looked like.. But I will say she was really beautiful with blonde hair and blue eys's..
Just my type..

AS I draw near.. I couldnt help notice. As I was looking at her eye's her agze was fixed lower.. And she was looking down "below" my waiste where the camera is resting.. and than nodding as if she wanted me to show her.. ..my pictures. :angel:
And so I asked "wanna see." :) And now she is enthusiastically nodding and reaching.. down for my camera..

"Loved to."
I already starting to blush...oo

So before I can even get close, I light up the screen and as she see's the fist picture , she grabs the camera/hand and pulls me in close..



The strap is around my neck, and in her enthusiansim, she pulls me in so quick, I actually lose my balance and hit the door with my hip and I feel/hear the clip on my pocket knife I am carrying..( Rogaltac folder) scatch the door..

I often carry the Rogaltac folder in my left pocket.. and the clip which hold s the knife in place is made out of 6Al4V titainium.. and even though it's slighty rounded . It digs a 4 inch deep gash into the door..

Woops..

She didnt seem to mind.. And guy the didnt seem to notice.. Or at least didnt say nothing..





















(Photo's of the Rogaltac fixed/folder system.. The Rogaltac is the flagship of Rogalsky Combatives International.. My system , my design, my knife.. oo



But before I could even worry about it , her ice blue eye's eye's are on the screen. The light on her face reminds me to how the moths drawn to the lights thinking that this is light of the moon.. ..oo

And with her hand still over mine.. I guide her finger's working the arrow.. As are hands move together.. and the heat from the truck pushes out her perfume. Filling my lungs.. My head begins to spin.. and feel a surge of energy rush down my spine..



And while she is still gazing on the first picture, she goes to the second.. . This one in black and white.. .She audibly squeals in delight. And kind of bounces up and down in the seat.. I can feel my face becoming flushed with blood.. Now she startig to blast throught the images.. Like a stream of flashing images in a dream ..


Now she is relly intently looking as if she couldnt wait to see what was next.. and all the while, biting her finger and she squeezing her legs closed..
She twist the camera sideways.. Now the strap is starting to choke me...

And it shortens my teather.. I am starting to black out.. Now I am pressed up beside her and she is long past the cup images.. getting into images I had taken during the day.. People on the street.. More abstrats.. Images of training..
Shots of the night before.. I am not even looking and now I am starting to painic with what she might see.

My heart feels like it's going to come out of my chest..

As lung full after of lungfull of her heavenly perfume combined with ...her..

With the heat blasting and her so close.. I couldnt help notice how good she smelled..And my legs are starting to give out.
As she looking at the images.. I couldnt notice the lines of her neck.. The way she held her head .. just so..



And while she was madly chimping backwards.. She is ohhhing and Ahhhing.. and saying stuff like "amazing".

Ohhh .. I love B+W

And punctiating with jerks of the strap on my neck..
OMG.. the things it was doing to me..

If at first there was a doubt of senserity ,

She adds with conviction.. "is that someone's face...

No it cant be...?

Oh my god what is that,,..?

I tried to look what she is seeing, my eye's are blurry.. and tounge tied into a knot..

I can't help notice I am visablly begining to salivate, and all I can think of with her wearing that red shirt as the drools goes down my side of my mouth.. .. that I.... I am the lone wolf hunter...LoL hahahahaha

Now she might have been just playing me , but no mattter I was totally digging the vide she is sending out. And I must admit that I liked the fact that she was giving me attention and the admiration. and not him.

In fact she is grinding him hard.. and he right there ..

Why is letting it happen.. Dosnt he know.. my mind is racing..
All I feel from him is..
Burning hate, Hate burning holes in me..

So I finally look over at the guy.. and say straight faced..

Does your brother want to see some pictures..

And with a look I can only describe as wanting to rip my head off he say's
"I am her boyfreind. not her brother.." :rolleyes: . And "No I dont want to see pictures of a stupid cup." .

Now his hands are gripping the stearing wheel so tight .. His knuckles are white...

Now, I know he is thinking that he should have run me over when I was infront of his car and he chance..

"Oh .........I am sorry." . I let out.. Looking back at the beatifull girl.. Um nice truck. Her eye's and mine locked in secret knowing only we share.. LOL



So before I can say a word.. The girl interjects..His picture are not garbage.. It's not garbage.. the ways he shoots it, the ways he see's it's...it's ART..




I just looked at her and raised my hands and eye's to heaven.. and said a little silent thanks to God and Heaven, for the angel he sent me..
mAnd than reached over and touched her arm.. I want to feel her skin. I want to know that is not just a being of pure light and goodness. And just smiled.. And said 'Thank you" ..

I wanted to reach in and pull her close and kiss her.

And as if she can read my mind she closes her eye's and wets her lips..

OMG is this happing, I think to myself.

I stood there looking at her for some time..

At that point, the "guy" disappeared.. into the fog..





And in that moment I wanted to open the door in that moment when he was gone.. And open that door.. marked with with the scratch on it from my pocket knife... And take her home..

And she knew it to..

So I thank her for the kind words about my work.. And reach in for one of my cards..

And than she see's the picture on the card.. "The dream horse" ..




The Dream horse


She see's the photo and let's out a "I love horses" and says.. I love to ride.... I said that horse in a a dream.. Now reading the print..she repeats.. Rogaltacdesign as the guy steps on it..

And she is gone..



About 6 cars down , I see my card get thrown out the window on the driver's side..


I walk over and pick it up and look up just in time to see him pull out and drive the other way..

I couldnt see if she was looking at me.. But I put my hand to my mouth and blew her a kiss..

It was than I saw her hand running up and down the scatch..

And I knew, everytime she touched that mark..

She would think of me..
 
Gregory, it's so awful how she harassed you over those pictures! Deepest sympathies for your discomfort... :D
 
Nikkor AIS said:
Just tonight while out I was thinking that I want to be able to shoot in "any" store I go in.. And to that effect I have started to openly photograph in the my local stores..

Got kicked out of the Wall mart.. but ...that's no big deal ... Wallmart sucks anyways..
Click to expand...

You do know that stores are not public property right? ;)
 
Thanks Doug..

Thanks for sharing my pain.. LOL

" I had it with you photographer's " is the best line ever.. :p


As far as this video..

She was pretty upset .. I thought whe was going to have a stroke or maybe a heat attack..

That is quite the voice.. I am glad someone was able to tape this and share it on the net..
 
Araakii said:
No, it has nothing to do with the size of the camera. It's the photographer.
Click to expand...
I would have to say that it's not the photographer - it's the subject. There is no way of accurately predicting how a subject will react to being photographed based merely on their appearance.

I always try to capture the unguarded moment. People have a facade that they present to the world and to other people. It is the person behind the facade that I am interested in - not the facade. As an adherant of Cartier-Bresson's street photography philosophy, if someone happens to "see" me photographing them, I consider that a lapse on my part. It is almosg always the result of a temporary loss of focus due to fatigue, impatience or a bit of overconfidence.

Street photography is about the decisive moment. If you ask beforehand to photograph a person, you have no decisive moment. You get the facade, not the person behind the facade. If you ask, you then have a street portrait. There is indeed a difference.

While there's nothing wrong with street portraits, my interest is in the decisive moment, the person behind the facade. No one should be limited to only street portraits if their goal is to capture something different in their photographic undertakings.

There is a great online guide titled "The Photographer's Right" written by Bert Krages, J.D. It goes into detail about the right to photograph in the U.S. and addresses what the police, security guards and private citizens can and cannot lawfully do when you photograph them in the public environment.

I have always failed to understand why some people in the U.S. - who are photographed 5000 times a day by security cameras - take umbrage to being photographed by a lowly little street photographer. All I can come up with is that it is a "control" issue for some people.

The irony of the situation is that people who have this type of control issue are in fact the ones that are on the wrong side of the law when it comes to street photography. When these control issue types attempt to coerce the photographer into deleting photos or handing over film, or if they verbally slander, detain the photographer or lay hands on him/ her in any manner, it is they who are breaking the law and violating the rights of another.

In spite of the control issue person's misinformed and unfounded beliefs, the photographer is in no way doing anything to them that is unlawful, unethical, immoral, improper or unseemly.

Avoiding or diffusing confrontation is always the preferred resolution - but any time you engage in street photography you have the potential for confrontation.

Carried to its logical concluision, the erroneous "you can't take my picture" claim/worldview will result in the extinction of an entire genre of photography that originated in 1895 with Eugene Atget in Paris and was elevated to the level of art by Henri Cartier-Bresson and later on by Vivian Maier and Garry Winogrand. For the uninformed to try to claim that street photography is not a legitimate genre and is some kind of threat to the subject is as baseless as it is nonsensical.

That is a price that is simply too high to pay in order to pacify the uneducated, the misinformed and the belligerent who have control issues. It is a price that legitimate, lawful photographers should not be expected to pay or be willing to pay.

Yesteryear's street photography is today's historical record of a bygone era. Today's street photography will be held in the same regard 30, 40 or 50 years on. We simply cannot allow that record to be denied to future generations due to the paranoia and ignorance of a handful of control issue types in the present.

JMHO.
 
Yes and for Besson it was about using leading lines to lead your eye were he wanted it to go in the frame. And repeating shapes to give the image a sense of rhythm. also geometry plays a big part in a lot of his images. And what really important is to have trained your vision to a point were you, the photographer, recognizes when those elements all come together at the precise moment and then to get the camera into the right space and to have the reflexes and technical ability to be able to capture all of that in a fraction of a second.

Harassment is just part of the deal.

From yesterday
L1006978_zpsce94c7b7.jpg


a couple of weeks ago
L1006241_zps7e58e143.jpg
 
It seems to me that a bad subject reaction often arises out of a sense of having been targeted. And they don't know why. I'm sometimes asked if the pic is for the newspaper...

noisycheese said:
...
That is a price that is simply too high to pay in order to pacify the uneducated, the misinformed and the belligerent who have control issues. It is a price that legitimate, lawful photographers should not be expected to pay or be willing to pay. ...
Click to expand...

Sometimes the problem is worsened by a photographer who is one of the "uneducated, the misinformed and the belligerent who have control issues." And this just contributes to problems for the next photographer. Better to be friendly and respectful, avoid misunderstandings.
 
noisycheese said:
I would have to say that it's not the photographer - it's the subject. There is no way of accurately predicting how a subject will react to being photographed based merely on their appearance.

I always try to capture the unguarded moment. People have a facade that they present to the world and to other people. It is the person behind the facade that I am interested in - not the facade. As an adherant of Cartier-Bresson's street photography philosophy, if someone happens to "see" me photographing them, I consider that a lapse on my part. It is almosg always the result of a temporary loss of focus due to fatigue, impatience or a bit of overconfidence.

Street photography is about the decisive moment. If you ask beforehand to photograph a person, you have no decisive moment. You get the facade, not the person behind the facade. If you ask, you then have a street portrait. There is indeed a difference.

While there's nothing wrong with street portraits, my interest is in the decisive moment, the person behind the facade. No one should be limited to only street portraits if their goal is to capture something different in their photographic undertakings.

There is a great online guide titled "The Photographer's Right" written by Bert Krages, J.D. It goes into detail about the right to photograph in the U.S. and addresses what the police, security guards and private citizens can and cannot lawfully do when you photograph them in the public environment.

I have always failed to understand why some people in the U.S. - who are photographed 5000 times a day by security cameras - take umbrage to being photographed by a lowly little street photographer. All I can come up with is that it is a "control" issue for some people.

The irony of the situation is that people who have this type of control issue are in fact the ones that are on the wrong side of the law when it comes to street photography. When these control issue types attempt to coerce the photographer into deleting photos or handing over film, or if they verbally slander, detain the photographer or lay hands on him/ her in any manner, it is they who are breaking the law and violating the rights of another.

In spite of the control issue person's misinformed and unfounded beliefs, the photographer is in no way doing anything to them that is unlawful, unethical, immoral, improper or unseemly.

Avoiding or diffusing confrontation is always the preferred resolution - but any time you engage in street photography you have the potential for confrontation.

Carried to its logical concluision, the erroneous "you can't take my picture" claim/worldview will result in the extinction of an entire genre of photography that originated in 1895 with Eugene Atget in Paris and was elevated to the level of art by Henri Cartier-Bresson and later on by Vivian Maier and Garry Winogrand. For the uninformed to try to claim that street photography is not a legitimate genre and is some kind of threat to the subject is as baseless as it is nonsensical.

That is a price that is simply too high to pay in order to pacify the uneducated, the misinformed and the belligerent who have control issues. It is a price that legitimate, lawful photographers should not be expected to pay or be willing to pay.

Yesteryear's street photography is today's historical record of a bygone era. Today's street photography will be held in the same regard 30, 40 or 50 years on. We simply cannot allow that record to be denied to future generations due to the paranoia and ignorance of a handful of control issue types in the present.

JMHO.
Click to expand...

Well-said! Thanks for putting these thoughts together; they're important.
 
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