Lauffray
Invisible Cities
Hello all
I recently got a Gossen Digisix lightmeter to go with the meterless M4 and was planning on using it as an incident light meter. After about a month I realize I was possibly using it "wrong" :bang:
The Digisix has the white dome pointing outwards rather than on the same side as the screen, meaning if I hold it in my palm and point it to the subject I'm actually doing a reflected reading (right?)
Here's a picture to clarify:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/gossen/digisix/D3S_6377-460.jpg
So if I understand correctly, due to the placing of the dome I actually have to hold it the OTHER way around, from the subject pointing towards my lens ? (the manual simply says "press the button to take a reading")
If this is the case how do I shoot something far, a hill or a car across the street ? Am I understanding this correctly ?
go easy on the village idiot here
I recently got a Gossen Digisix lightmeter to go with the meterless M4 and was planning on using it as an incident light meter. After about a month I realize I was possibly using it "wrong" :bang:
The Digisix has the white dome pointing outwards rather than on the same side as the screen, meaning if I hold it in my palm and point it to the subject I'm actually doing a reflected reading (right?)
Here's a picture to clarify:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/gossen/digisix/D3S_6377-460.jpg
So if I understand correctly, due to the placing of the dome I actually have to hold it the OTHER way around, from the subject pointing towards my lens ? (the manual simply says "press the button to take a reading")
If this is the case how do I shoot something far, a hill or a car across the street ? Am I understanding this correctly ?
go easy on the village idiot here
Mudman
Well-known
right now you have it set to incident mode. And yes you would be correct. See if it has a reflective mode. That'll allow you to use it as you're used to built in meters in most cameras. IIRC you should just be able to slide the dome over so that it's not in front of the sensor.
skipjack
Established
If you are using it as an incident yes, you leave the plastic dome in the center and face towards the light away from the subject, as if you were the subject looking at the light source. You can slide the plastic dome away from the sensor and use it as a reflective meter - pointing it at the subject, as if a meter in the camera.
Lauffray
Invisible Cities
ah I see, thanks a lot guys. I wanted to learn how to use incident metering because I've always done reflected with the M7
One last question, how do I meter for farther subjects like that famous car across the street ?
One last question, how do I meter for farther subjects like that famous car across the street ?
Mudman
Well-known
you walk up to the car across the street? Or you guess based off of similar light next to you.
Sparrow
Veteran
ah I see, thanks a lot guys. I wanted to learn how to use incident metering because I've always done reflected with the M7
One last question, how do I meter for farther subjects like that famous car across the street ?
Measure the sky on a sunny day, put a sticker to mark the needle deflection .. use that as a datum on other days to tell you how far you need open up to get the correct settings under different conditions, I do that most of the time and it works OK
like this ...
EdwardKaraa
Well-known
One last question, how do I meter for farther subjects like that famous car across the street ?
If you're in the same light as the car across the street, you can just measure the incident light from your position, since practically you are at the same distance from the light source, in this case being the sun
This doesn't work obviously with closer light sources, so you might want to go to your subject to measure the light.
You should be aware that incident reading should also be interpreted like reflected ones. They are not foolproof. For instance with a bright subject like a white car you might want to stop down an extra 1/2 stop in order to avoid blown highlights.
Richard G
Veteran
1. On a bright cloudy day the light falling on you is mostly the same as the light falling on the subject. Take the reading with the meter in the shoe still.
2. Other times you have to turn it around. This is why I got the DigiPro and why most buy one of the Sekonics.
3. The car across the street or the distant hill? That's why landscape photographers pay a fortune for a spot meter. The sun on the hill is the same sun lighting the bin in the alley next to you. Meter there.
4. White car stop down a bit. Bronze door details, open up a bit. It's the opposite of what you'd do with a reflected reading.
5. Stewart's technique with the sky: I've read that some just meter the sky and subtract whatever number of EV they have previously determined works for them. No needle on the Digisix and it's pretty small to keep stickers on.
2. Other times you have to turn it around. This is why I got the DigiPro and why most buy one of the Sekonics.
3. The car across the street or the distant hill? That's why landscape photographers pay a fortune for a spot meter. The sun on the hill is the same sun lighting the bin in the alley next to you. Meter there.
4. White car stop down a bit. Bronze door details, open up a bit. It's the opposite of what you'd do with a reflected reading.
5. Stewart's technique with the sky: I've read that some just meter the sky and subtract whatever number of EV they have previously determined works for them. No needle on the Digisix and it's pretty small to keep stickers on.
robbeiflex
Well-known
I have a Digisix. Unlike Stewart's photo of his light meter above there is not much space for stickers and the read out is just a number. I get best results by sliding the white dome aside, then pointing it around to get readings of the sky, ground, objects and shadows to get a range, then putting my exposure roughly in the middle. It's not as precise as a spot meter, but then it didn't cost as much either.
Cheers,
Rob
Cheers,
Rob
Nigel Meaby
Well-known
Yes as Rob said just slide the white dome ( which is actually called an Invercone) to the side to take a reflective reading. You cannot take a reflective reading with it covering the light measuring aperture.
An in-camera meter is taking a reflective reading. So if you want to use it as if it was inside the M4 then a reflective reading is what you need. If you have a static subject that you can go over to then slide the dome back over the light measuring aperture and do an incident reading, pointing the meter away from the subject.
This is from the Digisix manual
1.2 Incident light and reflected light measuring mode
Incident light method
For the incident mode, the diffusor is to be
shifted to the left and placed in front of the
measuring aperture. Taking measurements
using the incident light mode in particular
produces perfectly exposed shots. In this
mode, the DS measures from the subject
towards the camera. This guarantees that
the tone quality of the picture is equivalent
to that of the subject. This is especially
important for very bright or dark subjects.
Even under very difficult photographying
conditions, as for example with subjects
which have a lot of contrast, the incident
light mode is a more reliable way of
producing well exposed pictures.
Reflected light method
For the reflected mode, the diffuser must be
shifted to the right. Care must be taken, that
the light measuring aperture is entirely free.
The measurement is taken from the position
of the camera towards the subject. In this
method, only the light reflected from the
subject is detected by the meter. Therefore,
the measuring values always depend on the
reflection capacity of the subject. As a result
of this, bright subjects are reproduced
darker and therefore not properly exposed.
Consequently, this mode is conveniently
used, when the suject does not show too
high contrasts between bright and dark
areas.
Which if you don't have one can be found here http://www.gossen-photo.de/pdf/ba_digisix_gb.pdf
An in-camera meter is taking a reflective reading. So if you want to use it as if it was inside the M4 then a reflective reading is what you need. If you have a static subject that you can go over to then slide the dome back over the light measuring aperture and do an incident reading, pointing the meter away from the subject.
This is from the Digisix manual
1.2 Incident light and reflected light measuring mode
Incident light method
For the incident mode, the diffusor is to be
shifted to the left and placed in front of the
measuring aperture. Taking measurements
using the incident light mode in particular
produces perfectly exposed shots. In this
mode, the DS measures from the subject
towards the camera. This guarantees that
the tone quality of the picture is equivalent
to that of the subject. This is especially
important for very bright or dark subjects.
Even under very difficult photographying
conditions, as for example with subjects
which have a lot of contrast, the incident
light mode is a more reliable way of
producing well exposed pictures.
Reflected light method
For the reflected mode, the diffuser must be
shifted to the right. Care must be taken, that
the light measuring aperture is entirely free.
The measurement is taken from the position
of the camera towards the subject. In this
method, only the light reflected from the
subject is detected by the meter. Therefore,
the measuring values always depend on the
reflection capacity of the subject. As a result
of this, bright subjects are reproduced
darker and therefore not properly exposed.
Consequently, this mode is conveniently
used, when the suject does not show too
high contrasts between bright and dark
areas.
Which if you don't have one can be found here http://www.gossen-photo.de/pdf/ba_digisix_gb.pdf
Roger Hicks
Veteran
You might find a piece on basic metering useful:
http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/meters and metering.html
and for illustrations o how to hold a meter (about 3/4 of the way down)
http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps expo neg.html
Cheers,
R.
http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/meters and metering.html
and for illustrations o how to hold a meter (about 3/4 of the way down)
http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps expo neg.html
Cheers,
R.
Gumby
Veteran
If I'm not mistaken, point an incident meter toward the camera from the subject's position, not necessarily toward the light.
As a supplement to Roger's material, here is something I find quite instructive:
http://www.sekonic.com/Classroom/MeteringTechniques/IncidentvsReflected.aspx
As a supplement to Roger's material, here is something I find quite instructive:
http://www.sekonic.com/Classroom/MeteringTechniques/IncidentvsReflected.aspx
Nigel Meaby
Well-known
Just took a look at your Flickr.
Judging by your work there I'd say you have a good grasp on exposure. Just a little unsure about using the Digisix as opposed to the meter in your M7.
Judging by your work there I'd say you have a good grasp on exposure. Just a little unsure about using the Digisix as opposed to the meter in your M7.
oftheherd
Veteran
Read below.
Point the dome of the incident meter towards the camera from the subject. To do otherwise might give a wrong reading, although perhaps not too much. It would depend.
And as mentioned above, what I always did for landscape or other subject not close enough to walk to, was to just hold the meter up at arm's length (from the front of the camera, or just beside it), align it so the back faced the subject and the dome towards the camera, and use that reading. Always worked for me.
You might want to google incident light meter use, or better still, go to Mr. Hicks site and look at his tutorials.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
(the manual simply says "press the button to take a reading")
If this is the case how do I shoot something far, a hill or a car across the street ? Am I understanding this correctly ?
go easy on the village idiot here
Don't forget to point the camera, focus, set the correct aperture, shutter speed and then press the shutter release
Not before, of course, winding the camera (with the winding lever). Oh, and the film has to be loaded Kidding aside, you may want to read a bit here: Incident vs. Reflected light readings
It takes a bit of to understand at first, but then you'll realize it's really very very simple!
EdwardKaraa
Well-known
Well, sometimes I point the dome towards the camera, sometimes towards the light, and sometimes slightly turn it in a way that it measures the light in shadowed areas of my subject. So it all depends on what I'm trying to achieve.
loboacan
Newbie
Pros in the old days
Pros in the old days
I've knew some who would take both types or readings-Incident & Reflective-and use the average. This helps compensate for extra dark or extra light objects. I believe the dome-incident assumes an 18% gray card or zone 5-I think. If your scene is lighter or darker than this mismatch will occur....but film does have some latitude for error. After all-is the shutter speed 100% accurate. Is the diaphragm 100% accurate. How much light does the glass in your lens hold back.............and the beat goes on. When using reflective light readings for distance shots it is indeed best to tilt the meter downward somewhat to avoid getting a reading of the sky rather
than the land---------unless it is the sky that you want to meter.
Pros in the old days
I've knew some who would take both types or readings-Incident & Reflective-and use the average. This helps compensate for extra dark or extra light objects. I believe the dome-incident assumes an 18% gray card or zone 5-I think. If your scene is lighter or darker than this mismatch will occur....but film does have some latitude for error. After all-is the shutter speed 100% accurate. Is the diaphragm 100% accurate. How much light does the glass in your lens hold back.............and the beat goes on. When using reflective light readings for distance shots it is indeed best to tilt the meter downward somewhat to avoid getting a reading of the sky rather
than the land---------unless it is the sky that you want to meter.
21-135 Apo All Good
Established
To the OP:
Have you "Nulled" the meter?
Or checked it to see if it's working properly and actually zero'd? Here's an old trick taught to me by my Dad. It has worked with every hand held meter that I own, including my 40 year old Gossen Luna-Pro!
To do this: Set meter to ISO 125, slide dome over the sensor to incident mode. Take outside on a very sunny day without clouds and take incident reading of the Sun. You should get F-16.0 @ 1/125 sec. if meter is zero'd and your pointing it so that the Sun's rays hit the entire dome evenly by aligning the angle you hold the meter to the angle of the Sun in the sky. It's important to have a fresh battery in the meter and to only do this between the hours of 10:00am & 2:00pm to guarantee maximum brightness level of the Sun. If you're getting some sort of deviation of a tenth or so of an F-stop, you can adjust for this with a jeweler's screwdriver by turning the set screw on some meters (like mine). In this manner fluctuations in battery voltage, age of battery or meter can be accommodated so as to enable one's self to get superior exposure readings that are consistent.
NOW that your meter is zero'd for incident, slide the dome over and take a reflected light reading off of a Kodak 18% Gray Card with the Sun over your shoulder. Don't cast a shadow onto the Gray Card by holding the meter too close. The two metering methods often directly coincide or at most are off by less than 2/10's of a stop in most cases.
Good luck with your new meter and remember if you ever forget it or drop it, just use "Sunny 16" outside.
Have fun making some great exposures!
Dave
Have you "Nulled" the meter?
Or checked it to see if it's working properly and actually zero'd? Here's an old trick taught to me by my Dad. It has worked with every hand held meter that I own, including my 40 year old Gossen Luna-Pro!
To do this: Set meter to ISO 125, slide dome over the sensor to incident mode. Take outside on a very sunny day without clouds and take incident reading of the Sun. You should get F-16.0 @ 1/125 sec. if meter is zero'd and your pointing it so that the Sun's rays hit the entire dome evenly by aligning the angle you hold the meter to the angle of the Sun in the sky. It's important to have a fresh battery in the meter and to only do this between the hours of 10:00am & 2:00pm to guarantee maximum brightness level of the Sun. If you're getting some sort of deviation of a tenth or so of an F-stop, you can adjust for this with a jeweler's screwdriver by turning the set screw on some meters (like mine). In this manner fluctuations in battery voltage, age of battery or meter can be accommodated so as to enable one's self to get superior exposure readings that are consistent.
NOW that your meter is zero'd for incident, slide the dome over and take a reflected light reading off of a Kodak 18% Gray Card with the Sun over your shoulder. Don't cast a shadow onto the Gray Card by holding the meter too close. The two metering methods often directly coincide or at most are off by less than 2/10's of a stop in most cases.
Good luck with your new meter and remember if you ever forget it or drop it, just use "Sunny 16" outside.
Have fun making some great exposures!
Dave
Lauffray
Invisible Cities
wow thanks everyone !
n5jrn
Well-known
Actually, no. If you use the dome and take an incident light reading properly, you're measuring the light that's illuminating your subject -- not the light that's reflecting from your subject. Your reading therefore cannot be fooled by an atypically light or dark subject. That is in fact the main advantage of metering incident light.
Now, you might want to then make an artistic decision to deliberately expose your subject so that it's more or less exposed than it would render in the "normal" case, but that's a different matter entirely than having to compensate for a reflected meter trying to tell you to expose fresh snow so that it comes out neutral gray.