Summar clone from the old USSR?

[David Hughes]

Hi,

The title says it all. I've pictures of a Leica IIIa plus Summar and a FED plus a Summar clone from a 1940's magazine article but have never seen or heard of the FED version.

Can anyone throw any light on it.

Regards, David

 

[greyelm]

According to Princelle there was a pre-war Fed no. F300 that looked like a Summar and there was even the F305 engraved as "Summar" Leitz.

 

[johannielscom]

FED-S by buzzardkid, on Flickr

It's on the left here.

It is a FED 50/2.0 and the only difference is that the barrel is 1/6 inch longer. That, and it is pre-war, so non-standardized. It cannot be used on a Leica camera, the RF is way off for sure.

I'll see if I have a better picture of it, the above kit I sold, I have another FED-S with this lens and the uncoupled 100/6.3 left.

Fellow member outfitter has a kit too, and you also can see a kit online, here. USSRphoto.com is a brilliant site for all things photography from the FSU!

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

I do think it can be calibrated to work on a Leica. Maybe Brian would know? It's a cool-looking lens, and I've seen some really nice photos from it on flickr. They are indeed Summaresque.

 

[johannielscom]

It can be collimated, John. Mine has been to Yuri at Fedka and he asked if it should be collimated for Leica, but I just wanted it matched to the FED-S body.

What some Russian worker put together, let no man separate...😉 Body and lens are a unity now.

I also have the 100/6.3 but that is uncoupled, as is the 28/4.5 that I own. The latter needs a CLA, but the middle of the 5 elements is only 0.5 millimeter thick so I guess Yuri's not going to do that, way to fiddly and risky I presume 🙁

 

[Brian Legge]

Ah, I'd heard of the lens but hadn't seen one. I just saw a strange looking lens on ebay recently - thats what it was. 🙂

 

[Brian Legge]

Ah, here it is. Too rich for my blood but these things do seem very rare:

http://cgi.ebay.com/FED-Russian-Len...24795510?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item2eb62b6f76

 

[David Hughes]

Thanks everyone and especially Brian: I'm a little poorer now but maybe there will be something in the post soon...

Regards, David

 

[Brian Legge]

No problem and congrats!

Once you get the lens, do you think you could post some shots of it here? There isn't very much information out there about it.

Some shots with it would be excellent assuming it focuses nicely. I'm curious how it performs in practice.

 

[johannielscom]

Nice lens! Really clean and a steal! Wrong caps though, the pre-war script isn't the curly logo but a much more 'straight' one.

Meanwhile I found it: there was a thread here before (I started it myself, duh) and it is here.

Shows some info on the FED-S cameras that this lens was originally delivered with and some shots of and with the FED 50/2.0.

Enjoy.

Oh, and don't forget that USSRphoto.com link posted above!

 

[johannielscom]

Oh, and do not forget to look here, this camera and lens could be a real steal!

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

It started for me when I bought an(other) old 1942 magazine with a letter in it from a reader attacking an article in a previous edition of the magazine about the FED.

After spending a little money and a lot of time I managed to get a copy of the article and, a little later on, a real copy of the magazine.


The article had a photo of the FED S etc and a photo of the Leica IIIa or b for comparison and that sent me off looking for the correct lens cap for the Leica (expensive but I got one) and the FED lens etc. Now I just need the FED body and lens cap.

These small items are a pita.

I started a thread about the article ages ago and have lost track of it but then discovered some one else had and they lead me to a download of the magazine pages. I think the camera cost a fraction of what it cost me to trace and get a copy of the magazine article...

But it's all good, clean, harmless fun.

Regards, David

 

[David Hughes]

It arrived this morning. 5 working days in the post as it was posted on the 2nd.

There's little I can add to the original page on ebay except that I now have a plastic rear end cap marked Fed in the curly post 1948 script and a wrong lens cap. I'll be looking for one in the square writing, when I can raise some cash...

It's a long lens, btw. If you put the FED with its Industar-10 beside one with an Industar-22 and then one with this lens on it they all get longer and longer. And it's also longer than the Summar: interesting.

Meantime, if it stops raining (typical mid-summer downfall) I'll be outside with it on the CL and a thick elastic band around the barrel to remind me not to collapse it! Only FFP4 Plus in the CL, so I'll have to repeat the tests with colour film, in due course.

Edit: Any one have any idea of the date? Square script means pre 1948 and the serial number is 25 376 with another no. "90" also on the contact plate.

Regards, David

 

[johannielscom]

It arrived this morning. 5 working days in the post as it was posted on the 2nd.

There's little I can add to the original page on ebay except that I now have a plastic rear end cap marked Fed in the curly post 1948 script and a wrong lens cap. I'll be looking for one in the square writing, when I can raise some cash...

It's a long lens, btw. If you put the FED with its Industar-10 beside one with an Industar-22 and then one with this lens on it they all get longer and longer. And it's also longer than the Summar: interesting.

Meantime, if it stops raining (typical mid-summer downfall) I'll be outside with it on the CL and a thick elastic band around the barrel to remind me not to collapse it! Only FFP4 Plus in the CL, so I'll have to repeat the tests with colour film, in due course.

Edit: Any one have any idea of the date? Square script means pre 1948 and the serial number is 25 376 with another no. "90" also on the contact plate.

Regards, David

Hi David,

In this case, these lenses and their bodies were not standardised. The Russians had not come round to that when the Germans destroyed the Kharkov plant in 1941. That's why they were so eager to adapt the Contax lens register after WWII, capturing the Contax Werke and Carl Zeiss provided them with free knowledge, personnel, machinery and parts that already were standardised.

The numbers in the lens mount are a serial number (in yours 25376, but no records on production dates exist anymore) and the 90 is unknown. My lens numbers are 27151, 18 and a tilted 2. Again, they mean nothing anymore... 🙁

Only thing that can be said with certainty is that they were built before the destruction of the Kharkov plant.

Looking forward to seeing some shots from and with your lens!

 

[David Hughes]

Hi David,

In this case, these lenses and their bodies were not standardised. The Russians had not come round to that when the Germans destroyed the Kharkov plant in 1941. That's why they were so eager to adapt the Contax lens register after WWII, capturing the Contax Werke and Carl Zeiss provided them with free knowledge, personnel, machinery and parts that already were standardised.

The numbers in the lens mount are a serial number (in yours 25376, but no records on production dates exist anymore) and the 90 is unknown. My lens numbers are 27151, 18 and a tilted 2. Again, they mean nothing anymore... 🙁

Only thing that can be said with certainty is that they were built before the destruction of the Kharkov plant.

Looking forward to seeing some shots from and with your lens!

Hi,

Many thanks: even 'though you've confirmed my worst fears.

Luckily, it will probably be like all my other lenses and seldom used at f/2 or even f/4 but I'll do a few focussing shots at one metre and f/2. I'll also have to get out the old Periflex focusing checker and play around in a dark room with a candle* and a tape measure. It's all good, clean, harmless fun.

Thanks again.

Regards, David

* This could be a good excuse to buy a Leica M9 but I think my wife is getting suspicious.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The M9 is a great tool for shimming Russian lenses.

Post some pictures with the lens. Will be interesting to test against the Summar.

 

[johannielscom]

Hi David,

Yuri at Fedka.com can collimate it, for Leica use as well (see my post #5 in this thread).

Personally, I would ask Yuri for a nice condition pre-war FED-1 and if he has found one send him the lens and have them matched.

Way cheaper than an M9 too! 😀

 

[David Hughes]

I've used up the last few frames of FP4 in the CL with this lens on it and, a Jupiter-8 all at a metre from the subject and as wide open as possible (meaning at 1/1000th second). Plus a couple of informal ones with the old Summar as well.

If anything of interest comes out of it I'll post the pictures.

I don't know about getting it shimmed etc. Reality suggests I seldom take pictures at 1 m range and at f/2 and so for all practical purposes, it will probably work. But we shall see.

Regards, David

 

[David Hughes]

I promised a picture from the FED f/2.

This picture was taken with it fitted to the Leica CL with Ilford's FP4 Plus in it. The film was developed and scanned by Ilford and then reduced to be about 900 pixels high, for obvious reasons as the original scans are 4535 x 3024 pixels.

The shot was at f/4.5 as there was a lot of light about and I focused on one metre and then moved towards the subject until it was OK in the range-finder. So the closest focussing possible. I hope it's obvious what was in the RF as I moved towards it.

Regards, David

 

[FrankS]

Very pleasing result, David.