Summar of passing interest

[Dralowid]

For those who are interested, it looks to me as if the Summar on this camera is a 'black nose' variant. Most of them have long since lost the paint on the rim. Always of interest to a Summar nut...

The camera? I think the pictures speak for themselves (no offence intended)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250867994170&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

No connection etc

Michael

 

[Erik van Straten]

Yes, it's a black "rim" Summar, nickel of course.

Erik.

 

[Dralowid]

Yup, I have a coated one (just to be difficult).

I don't know the reason for the existence of this type of Summar. I believe everything is the same as a standard lens...can anyone enlight me?

Michael

 

[Erik van Straten]

Yup, I have a coated one (just to be difficult).

I don't know the reason for the existence of this type of Summar. I believe everything is the same as a standard lens...can anyone enlight me?

Michael

Do you have a coated nickel black rim Summar? I would love to have one ...

It is clear that the rectilinair Summar (there was also a rotating one) was developed for the Agfa-color system that worked with a special tri-colour filter. I have a chrome Summar with the "pip" for that purpose; also one without, but that one is coated.
Why the black rim Summar was made, I really don't know. It is often seen in German ads of the early 1930's mounted on a (black) Leica III.

Erik.

 

[john neal]

Interesting - looks very similar to my 1938 uncoated example, which I didn't think was a black-rim.

In the shot from the bottom of the camera, has the lens got a filter on it? It looks like there is something mounted on there - or is it my eyes?

 

[Dralowid]

John,

That's the smooth rim. It replaces the milled rim found on a normal Summar and was originally black.

From my examples it is difficult to tell whether this was originally painted or chemically blackened but with filters and hoods it soon gets worn down to the brass.

Michael

 

[Erik van Straten]

Could very well be that the black rim Summar was the normal version and that the milled rim version could use the Agfacolor filter system. Are there any black rim Summars around with the "pip" (a screw with a long head in the f/stop ring)?

Erik.

 

[john neal]

Michael,

Thanks - so the little projection (at the top right quadrant) in the picture from below the camera is the "pip"? I wondered if that was a filter clamp or something.

That means that the front projection of the lens (in front of the glass) is more than a standard Summar? It looks like that lens has the milled part, then the smooth ring, or am I missing something again?

 

[Erik van Straten]

so the little projection (at the top right quadrant) in the picture from below the camera is the "pip"?

Yes, it is, so there goes my theory ...

Erik.

 

[john neal]

Maybe not, Erik, I don't see the pip in the front on view....

 

[Erik van Straten]

I don't see the pip in the front on view....

I don't see it either. Theory resurrected.

Erik.

 

[Dralowid]

Here we go...off down another dimly lit back lane of Leitz history!

I'm away from home but will try and take some comparative 'black rim' pictures when I get back.

Didn't know about a rotating Summar, would make using as SOOMP rather difficult!

The versions I am familiar with are chrome, nickel, black rim, rigid.

And what about the 'Tropical Summar'? Is this the same as the rigid?

Michael

 

[Erik van Straten]

The "rigid" Summar is the same as the rotating one. The Agfacolor filter system could not be used with rotating lenses, so Leitz made the rectilinear collapsible one. The rotating lenses could have either the black ring or the milled ring. (Rogliatti; Lenses). I don't know if chrome examples exist. (They do, Lager; Guide II).

There seems to be also a chrome collapsible with the black ring, but I am not 100% sure of that.

I've never heard about a Tropical Summar.

Postwar versions seem to exist, but I've never seen one. (Rogliatti; Lenses). Maybe the coated lenses are called 'postwar' by someone.

Erik.

 

[Dralowid]

Tropen (tropical) Summar

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/3633976

Do not confuse it with a tropical summer (being in the UK I don't know what one is!)

Posts: 62

And a very rare version of the Summar: the Tropen Summar:
http://www.leica-historica.de/VIDOM_85.pdf


And here is some data from a previous auction:
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/3633976

Posts: 62

And a very rare version of the Summar: the Tropen Summar:
http://www.leica-historica.de/VIDOM_85.pdf


And here is some data from a previous auction:
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/3633976


Posts: 62

And a very rare version of the Summar: the Tropen Summar:
http://www.leica-historica.de/VIDOM_85.pdf


And here is some data from a previous auction:
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/3633976

Posts: 62

And a very rare version of the Summar: the Tropen Summar:
http://www.leica-historica.de/VIDOM_85.pdf


And here is some data from a previous auction:
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/3633976

 

[Dralowid]

sorry about that, fingers slipped, just refer to the 'liveauctioneers' link

Michael

 

[rodt16s]

Malcolm Taylor has mentioned the Summar with the extra element.. He's come across a few over the years.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Tropen (tropical) Summar

Thank you, Michael, for this very interesting information.

Erik.

 

[john neal]

sorry about that, fingers slipped, just refer to the 'liveauctioneers' link

As ever, Michael, you have your finger on the pulse 😉

 

[Dralowid]

As ever, Michael, you have your finger on the pulse 😉

,,,but the patient's dead...

 

[Dralowid]

By way of illustration...

On the left, a black rim nickel Summar
It has no 'R' mark and no protruding screw onn the aperture ring.
193772
In the centre a nickel Summar with R mark and protruding screw (see the one behind it)
218960 + 257197

Both the above variants have the older type of aperture ring where the stops at the end of the scale are exposed.

On the right is a chrome Summar with R mark and no protruding screw (see the one behind it) and the later design of the aperture ring where the stops at the end of the scale are internal. Earlier chrome lenses have the earlier design.
349193 + 384234

Erik, by 'pip' do you mean the protruding screw?

Michael