Summicron Version Confusion

[anoldsock]

Hello All, I'm a bit confused over the Summicron Lens Versions.

Steven Gandy has the Summicron V3 starting at 2,646,001, but the AOL Leica Price Guide has the Summicron V3 from 2,4xx,000 - 2,9xx,000.

Does anyone know why there is the discrepancy? Consequently, I have 2,538,xxx.

 

[anoldsock]

Nevermind, I think I see the goof! Steven is saying that the V3 came only in black after 2,646,001

 

[ferider]

In any case, per Hove pocket Leica Guide V3 goes from 2307451 to 2974250.

Cheers,

Roland.

 

[anoldsock]

thanks Roland!

 

[dreamsandart]

Talking about Leitz/Leica 50mm Summicron versions is a bit confusing because many start the whole discussion with calling the first 50 Summicron 'collapsible' and then use the first rigid version as the '1st version'.

The most accurate take on the versions of Leica lenses I've seen is in the Appendix of Erin Puts 'Leica Lens Compendium'.

Summicron (I ) 'collapsible', 1953, ELW design, starting ser. no. 920,000
Summicron (II ) first rigid version, 1957, ELW design, starting ser. no. 1,400,000
Summicron (III) '69' or 11817, 1969, ELW design, starting ser. no. 2,269,000
Summicron (IV ) tabbed and later major mount change with built-in hood(same optical formula), 1979, ELC design, starting ser. no. 2,909,101

 

[Meleica]

dreamsandart

note that the Collapsible SCREW mount started at 920,000 but the Collapsible M Mount started at about 1,112,000.

Dan
My 50mm Summicron page
http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/summicron.htm

 

[dreamsandart]

Not talking about lens mount versions here, as within versions of Leica lenses there were many minor changes (and LTM lenses were mixed into the runs with M mounts all through the 50s/60s [early]), but the optical formulas which the versions go by ( and not about coatings either, which were improved/changes along the way ).

BTW; there were proto-type M-mount Summicrons in the early 50s too! before official production began in 1953. Both the M and TLM 50 Summicron were basically the same lens.

 

[JRG]

"... the Collapsible M Mount started at about 1,112,000."

My 50 'Cron collapsible appears to be M-mount with infinity lock; I don't see a LTM/M adapter on it. Serial No = 995xxx. What's with that?

 

[gdi]

Talking about Leitz/Leica 50mm Summicron versions is a bit confusing because many start the whole discussion with calling the first 50 Summicron 'collapsible' and then use the first rigid version as the '1st version'.

The most accurate take on the versions of Leica lenses I've seen is in the Appendix of Erin Puts 'Leica Lens Compendium'.

Summicron (I ) 'collapsible', 1953, ELW design, starting ser. no. 920,000
Summicron (II ) first rigid version, 1957, ELW design, starting ser. no. 1,400,000
Summicron (III) '69' or 11817, 1969, ELW design, starting ser. no. 2,269,000
Summicron (IV ) tabbed, 1979, ELC design, starting ser. no. 2,909,101

Is there any way to tell which serial #s are the ones with the "radioactive" element? I just received a screw mount version with a serial # of 993xxx.

 

[Meleica]

see here for more on the radioactive summicron's ( note - its a translated Japanese page )

http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=navclient&hl=en&u=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2esky%2esannet%2ene%2ejp%2fseven%2dss%2fcamera%2fsummicron50%2ehtm

frequently, just holding a radioactive summicron over a bright white piece of paper will show you the yellow tint of these lenses...

 

[Meleica]

JRG - I can only tell you that my numbers match Hove ( Dennis Laney ) and Sartorius regarding the collapsible M's starting about 11xxxxx

Dan

 

[gdi]

Thanks Dan,

I think I do see a yellow tint compared to a Canon 1.4 I have at my desk. The link you provided shows a couple of other indicators (if I understand it correctly), including the aperture ring rotating past the 2.0 index mark and the rear element housing seems to look like the radioactive one shown (it has threads).

I guess I better store it in a lead lined box to be safe... 🙂

 

[dreamsandart]

Sartorius in notorious for inaccuracy and I would not use as a definitive reference. But even so, Leica/Leitz has their usual exceptions to the rule of documentation. My Summicron 1191xxx is an early m-mount for the M3 and has the lanthanum glass which was later switched to a non-radioactive element, but all still classed as a collapsable '1st version'. M-mount 50 Summicrons under pre-M3 introduction would be considered pre-release or prototype lenses, they are rare and do exist, under 1,000,000 would be very rare in M-mount, and collector's desirable in TLM.

Again, lots of small variations; from the Summitar * (star) which was a Summicron in 'sheep's clothes', slight changes in the f-stop ring, feet or meter focus scales and other engraving changes, painted/drilled red dot mounting indicator to plastic red dot...

 

[JRG]

"I can only tell you that my numbers match Hove ( Dennis Laney ) and Sartorius regarding the collapsible M's starting about 11xxxxx"

Thanks, Dan. I don't doubt the authorities, but this lens has puzzled me since the first time I saw a list of proper serial numbers for Leica lenses.

I've owned it since the late 1970s; it arrived on a DS M3. Everything about it seems as it ought for a collapsible 50 'Cron --- except for the serial number.