Summilux 50mm E43 vs E46

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WoolenMammoth

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Does anyone have any first hand experience comparing the E43 50mm summilux and the e46 version with the retractable hood, which I guess was the last version before the asph (right?)

I have only used the E43, my lens dates from the late 60's. I like it well enough, however when I look at the flickr group for the version 2 lux, there is no way my lens could ever make some of the images I have seen up there. I have heard people say the lens remained unchanged until the asph, but would like to know for sure. My lens definitely has a 1960's leica feel to it, which is cool, but there are some photos tagged with v2 lux that have a way more modern look to them (sharper, higher contrast), which Im assuming come from the E46 model.

Anyone care to shed some light on this?

thanks!
 
I thought the design change was earlier, but I could be wrong. I have owned and used the E43 and own the E46. Other than possible differences in coatings, the real differences are the pull-out shade, which some hate, and the much shorter throw on the focusing ring on the E46. It's a personal preference issue IMO. On the whole, I'm happier with the E46, but it's a close call IMO.

Is it possible that the differences you're seeing are just coating-related? What is the s/n of your lens? The breakpoint that sticks in my memory is around 1.88 million, but I'm away from any reference books and could definitely be mis-remembering that.
 
I am currently testing two Summiluxes, but I did not pay attention to the 43/46 issue. One of the lenses is in chrome and looks older while the other lens is in black and looks like new with a purple/red coating on the glass.
 
I've owned three or four E43's after the "tweaking" and briefly, one E46. The coatings were all identical in color and application which is somwhat remarkable since even the tabbed vs. built-in hood 50 'crons varied more in coating color during it's run. More importantly though, at least my sample of the E46 'lux suffered from sloppy assembly as there was play/wobble in the focus mount that Sherry Krauter couldn't tighten despite the lens being near new or demo. Also, the lens focuses slightly past infinity and the lens tended to front focus the subject. The other E43's had spot on focus and perfect infinity agreement with my camera despite these lenses having more cosmetic wear than the E46 lens. The focus issues I believe to not be a sample variation but a normal change in design as to maximize sharpness at middle apertures like f/4.
 
raid said:
I am currently testing two Summiluxes, but I did not pay attention to the 43/46 issue. One of the lenses is in chrome and looks older while the other lens is in black and looks like new with a purple/red coating on the glass.
Click to expand...

The E43 lens you are working with used to belong to Erik. It is a very early v.1 Summilux.
 
Hello everybody.....I have a 50mm/1.4 early version.....the serial number is 1758265 and from what I remember, when I talked to Sherry Krauter about it when I bought it (7 years ago) she told me that it was basically a summarit but with a little improvement....and the 2nd version (also E43) was optically improved (I think she meant the lens coating and the glass was different, because the design of the lens appears to be the same) and then we have the pre-asph (E46) which has the pull out hood, not so sure about the coating, but I imagine that it is different (better?) than the 2nd version....anyways...I mostly shoot black and white with my early version and I use a medium yellow filter.....I love the lens for black and white....unfortunately, I can only afford to have one 50mm lens, so I use this lens for color as well, and yes, when I shoot color with the 50mm I can see a noticable difference between the early version (glass,coating) and my more modern 28mm elmarit....anyways...here is a sample of my 50mm early version summilux....

2232347432_889a59b1dd_b.jpg


and for what's it worth...I prefer the clamp on hoods instead of the built in /slide out hoods....mainly because I have put a couple of dings and dents in my lens hood over the years and have been able to straighten them out...not so sure what would of happened if the hood on my 90mm summicron would of taken those hits...I can't imagine it being pretty though...
cheers...michael
 
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Beautiful picture, Michael.

Nothing wrong with the first version of the Summilux, one would say...
Do you remember the used f-stop? I recall having seen this picture in the "bokeh" tread. You said there it was @ 1.4. If so, it's a wonderful lens, not just a Summarit with improved coatings.

Erik.
 
The lens I have is 222xxxx, well beyond the cutoff point. I just had it CLA'd and while its a grand improvement, its still a very old looking lens. Well, it is old 🙂

I guess ultimately, my question is for those people who have *actually* used both and if they could advise if the E46 pre asph with the built in hood would be an optical upgrade towards a more modern look compared to the V2 lux I currently have. By optical upgrade I mean under normal working conditions, compare two photos and see a difference, not shooting test charts or anything like that. Can you SEE a difference between the two lenses.

Im getting to the point where I'll probably just buy one and find out myself, but its always constructive to ask. Trying to find a good fast match for the newer 2.8 elmar-m.
 
Having both the 2.8 Elmar-M and the second Summilux 50, I would say the best companion to the Elmar-M is the Summilux 50 asph. The Elmar-M is a very "modern" rendering lens, extremely sharp.

Erik.
 
Erik van Straten said:
Beautiful picture, Michael.

Nothing wrong with the first version of the Summilux, one would say...
Do you remember the used f-stop? I recall having seen this picture in the "bokeh" tread. You said there it was @ 1.4. If so, it's a wonderful lens, not just a Summarit with improved coatings.

Erik.
Click to expand...

Hello Erik.....Thanks for the nice comment....I am pretty sure that it was taken at f1.4....you are correct, I did post that photo in the "bokeh" thread...I like the lens alot and I think that it is built better than my more modern 28mm elmarit (v3)....cheers...Michael
 
You will see no difference in picture quality except that at larger apertures, the E43 will have a greater number of keepers due to better focus optimization between the lens' optical focus and the rf cam as well as inherently greater accuracy of the longer focusing throw with the E43. The coatings are identical so there is going to be the same degree of flare resistance (quite good and one of the lens' strong points). The biggest gain with the E46 is the closer minimum focus to under 0.7m (more like 0.65m).
 
I have had two E46 versions, one of which I still have. Neither front-focused and both were as close to perfect as is possible to determine without an optical bench, physically and optically. I settled on an aluminum E46 (had a brass black paint for a while as well), but I agree that at least in theory the steeper pitch of the E46 should make for less precise focusing.

However, if that is true, you have to ask what your use of the lens is and whether you're going to miss more pictures because you didn't get the lens focused (1) as accurately as possible (E46 version) or (2) fast enough (E43 version). If I were using it as a landscape lens (not the best use for this lens, IMO), slower and more precise is better. For people, I found I did better with the E46 and ultimately kept one of them.
 
WoolenMammoth said:
I have only used the E43, my lens dates from the late 60's. I like it well enough, however when I look at the flickr group for the version 2 lux, there is no way my lens could ever make some of the images I have seen up there.
Click to expand...

Per Lager there was only one recomputation in 1962, at serial number 1844001. The official acknowledgement of this change did not occur until 1965. Of course, coating technology changed later as well. Also, like for most manufacturers there is sample variation, a potential problem of your lens a trip to DAG or Sherry might cure.

Even if the lens was slightly recomputed later (I believe it had to, for the change in min. focus), this would, IMO, not explain the differences you see. Most likely, they are either due to film/processing/digital vs. film, or your camera. A 50/1.4 is not trivial to focus close up and wide open, and needs a well calibrated camera/lens pair.

Best,

Roland.
 
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The lens was recently CLA'd at DAG. I have no issues focusing this lens wide open on any of my bodies, after using a ZM sonnar for almost a year, this lens is a cakewalk...

Simply curious if this lens went through the same changes as the summicron did over the years, which, apparently, it didnt. I think I need to get an E46 and see for myself. Despite what Ive read here, I think Im still going to be suprised if the 40 year old lens looks like a new one...
 
the E46 (0.7 m version) should have more contrast than the E43, plus easier to find E46 filter. The sliding hood will also make the E46 have a slender profile.
 
I've owned both...in chrome. The E46 seemes to have smoother bokeh, maybe it's psycological but still...

E43:
peyton1.jpg


E46:
road-king-VII.jpg


hysterectomy.jpg


Todd
 
Todd - presuming the aperture and distance to subject are similar, would you say it looks like the E43 has greater sharpness in the far field?
 
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