Sunday Morning Lens Quiz #04

[Peter^]

What has changed in the past 50 years in optics production:
- coatings are much better?
- some new glass materials?
- new manufacturing techniques, i.e. for aspheric lenses?
- better optical calculation with computers and dedicated software?
- a relaxing of quality standards to accommodate for mass production?
- mass migration of production facilities to Asia?
- lack of talent in the optical industry, because the really good engineers no longer find a career in optics attractive?

Which do we expect to be "better"? Old lenses or new lenses?


I think A is the modern lens. There's a bit more contrast in the OOF areas, and the dynamic range is a bit higher in the leaves of the tree. This could be the result of better coatings.
Possibly.

 

[flip]

b - classic
because of....
corner dropoff
difference in contrast.

 

[fotomeow]

Here is the histogram of the two pictures .... Just saying 🙂

thanks for the histogram! I am presuming this helped you decide which lens is which. As an amateur histo reader, though, it is less obvious to me. Maybe you can help the rest of us figure it out based on the histo read. Feedback and comments are welcome on my post.

My first thought was that lens A and B in the graph look very similar in the middle zones, although the extreme zones (eg, zones 0/1 and zones 9/10) show a difference, which could simply be due a difference in exposure.
BUT, we are presuming the exposure is the same for both lenses. (Unless modern lens capture "more" light than vintage lenses at the same F and SS?)

My second thought was that, although small, maybe there are significant differences in the contrast of the mid tones b/w the lenses, with lens A having slightly more info in the midtones, and thus perhaps less contrast. If true, this would lead me to believe that lens A is the vintage lens (?). (Assuming that vintage lenses have less contrast than modern lenses).

Thoughts?

 

[ferider]

Hi Gary,

(a) the lenses were shot at different effective exposures (and f-stops ?). (b) A has a little more contrast. This and the veiling flare led me to believe A is the SC Nokton. For B I am guessing Summicron or Canon.

Who knows what Darren means with "classic" anyways. Like "Nokton Classic" ? I might be completely off, of course 🙂

 

[redisburning]

thanks for the histogram! I am presuming this helped you decide which lens is which. As an amateur histo reader, though, it is less obvious to me. Maybe you can help the rest of us figure it out based on the histo read. Feedback and comments are welcome on my post.

My first thought was that lens A and B in the graph look very similar in the middle zones, although the extreme zones (eg, zones 0/1 and zones 9/10) show a difference, which could simply be due a difference in exposure.
BUT, we are presuming the exposure is the same for both lenses. (Unless modern lens capture "more" light than vintage lenses at the same F and SS?)

My second thought was that, although small, maybe there are significant differences in the contrast of the mid tones b/w the lenses, with lens A having slightly more info in the midtones, and thus perhaps less contrast. If true, this would lead me to believe that lens A is the vintage lens (?). (Assuming that vintage lenses have less contrast than modern lenses).

Thoughts?

same f stop = different t stop, though how much it differs can vary greatly depending on the two lenses you are comparing.

for example, two brand new lux ASPHs are unlikely to vary more in their transmittance than fractions of a percent but compare two different lenses, especially a new one and a very old one and it could be significant.

I'd be willing to bet, both wide open, that a brand new Lux transmits more light than my rokkor 58mm f1.2 that is decades old despite the apparent 1/3rd stop advantage my lens should have.

 

[Peter^]

same f stop = different t stop, though how much it differs can vary greatly depending on the two lenses you are comparing.

for example, two brand new lux ASPHs are unlikely to vary more in their transmittance than fractions of a percent but compare two different lenses, especially a new one and a very old one and it could be significant.

I'd be willing to bet, both wide open, that a brand new Lux transmits more light than my rokkor 58mm f1.2 that is decades old despite the apparent 1/3rd stop advantage my lens should have.

1 stop would be a 50% loss of light. 1/3 stop would be roughly 16%. That's quite a bit due to aging (dirt, scratches, fungus, etc.).

 

[ItsReallyDarren]

Drumroll please...

Lens A was a Voigtlander Nokton 35/1.4 (Multicoated)

Lens B was a Leica Summaron 35/2.8


Roalnd, I'm quite impressed you figured out which lens was used for Lens A. Well done!

 

[Keith]

Lens A is the modern lens. The out of focus backgroud in picture B becomes sharper towards the corner. That is typical for old lenses. This phenomenon is called "curvature of field".

Erik.

I learned something here! 🙂

 

[ItsReallyDarren]

Did you take both shots wide open, Darren?

The Nokton was stopped down to 2.8. I'll upload a wide open shot from the Nokton.
The Summaron was shot wide open at 2.8.

 

[ferider]

Interesting that you shot both at f2.8, Darren. I guess what I thought being loss of DOF in A is really the Nokton's curvature of field ... Thanks for the comparison.

 

[kzphoto]

Now I want to try out that Nokton! L

 

[fotomeow]

Hhhmm, that was really challenging! It looks like 79% of us learned something here (since 79% thought lens B to the the modern one).

Thanks Roland and Redisburning for your info.

And props to CV for the 35/1.4! sharp and nice mid tones.
(Of course, i sold my SC version while going thru a GAS exchange program.)

 

[redisburning]

given that I searched the OP's post history I am not surprised that lens A is the 35/1.4 nokton.

what does surprise me is that it's the MC version.

anyway, that makes my hit rate on these quite high considering I've never owned any of these lenses.

 

[ItsReallyDarren]

Here's a shot from the Nokton 35 at 1.4 and 2.8. Below is the Summaron 35 at 2.8.

If you cycle between the Nokton and Summaron in the same frame the barrel distortion becomes noticeable.

Nokton 35 at 1.4

2.8

Summaron 35 at 2.8

 

[ampguy]

Darren, wow, very interesting. Thanks!