johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Summer is most definitely gone (in the northern hemisphere that is) and only a distant memory. Leaves have fallen or are still doing so, storms and rain and hail are due soon, the light is fading.
If this sounds depressing to you, ask yourself what it feels like for those (among us here, too?) who suffer from autumn / winter depression! Yikes!
Last year October my (then 17 yr old) daughter suffered her first full-blown winter depression and it was a b*tch. Sorry but no other word for it. It nearly did my family in since we did not remedy adequately and she needed time until end of March (!) to recover, antidepressants and all.
This year we came better prepared after concluding it was a winter depression. But, our efforts have so far only helped to push the depression back a few weeks, last week all symptoms emerged fiercely once again. Last years antidepressants have been continued until now, but I do not want to up the dosis.
I'm asking your help here folks, any and all input is welcome. We do:
Anybody have the magic spell that cures winter depression!? Any suggestions? What did you (or someone you know) do to battle it, and how successful was that?
If this sounds depressing to you, ask yourself what it feels like for those (among us here, too?) who suffer from autumn / winter depression! Yikes!
Last year October my (then 17 yr old) daughter suffered her first full-blown winter depression and it was a b*tch. Sorry but no other word for it. It nearly did my family in since we did not remedy adequately and she needed time until end of March (!) to recover, antidepressants and all.
This year we came better prepared after concluding it was a winter depression. But, our efforts have so far only helped to push the depression back a few weeks, last week all symptoms emerged fiercely once again. Last years antidepressants have been continued until now, but I do not want to up the dosis.
I'm asking your help here folks, any and all input is welcome. We do:
- As much sunlight as possible
- Solarium visits
- Extra vitamins, esp. vitamin B
- Healthy, organic food
- Daily exercise: walking the dog, biking
- Daily attendance at school
- Melatonin tablets
- A daylight lamp session (10-30 mins) in the morning after rise
Anybody have the magic spell that cures winter depression!? Any suggestions? What did you (or someone you know) do to battle it, and how successful was that?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Serious suggestion: one of those "sunrise" lamps that brightens gradually until it is VERY BRIGHT INDEED (deliberate use of capitals). I can't afford one but I've heard excellent reports from those who have used them.
Works for me (well, helps, anyway): plenty of sleep.
Silly suggestion: move! It doesn't (necessarily) work: a friend who lives in north India (generally pretty warm and sunny) still gets SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder).
Good luck!
Cheers,
R.
Works for me (well, helps, anyway): plenty of sleep.
Silly suggestion: move! It doesn't (necessarily) work: a friend who lives in north India (generally pretty warm and sunny) still gets SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder).
Good luck!
Cheers,
R.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Dear Roger,
thank you! I'll look into the lamp, I think it's also called a 'wake up light'.
Funny thing: even before my daughter was born I said to my ex-wife, the child should have a name that is internationally pronounced similar, so that it can be him or herself anywhere. Now, Nina is 19 and ever since she was 7 or 8 years old, moving to a foreign country has been an item for her, long before we told her the story of her name. Moving definitely is an option, in a few years when her education is complete.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
I actually read in a photo book that people in a small town in north Alaska came up with a good way to deal with winter depression, they arrange a weekly get-together where neighbors and communities go the city hall to do different activities.
This way they become closer as a community and time flies faster when you are not waiting for it to pass.
This way they become closer as a community and time flies faster when you are not waiting for it to pass.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
A close friend of mine wrote his M.D. thesis on the subject. According to him, physical exercise (cycling, jogging) in daylight works best, and other than every other therapy it has extra benefits rather than side effects. Half an hour of exposure of the face to sunlight or a sunlight substituting lamp (full spectrum and f/16 intensity at the recommended distance) in the morning is a good second best, and will usually be more effective than any medical therapy including SSRIs (which are in their turn the most effective medication). Solarium visits don't appear to work anywhere as well as the mentioned lamps, but increase the skin cancer risk...
One important thing to be aware of is that the most common variety of seasonal depression is already triggered during August to October, not in winter. It seems to be a effect of the shortening daytime (the daily light loss in minutes is strongest around the equinox) on our internal clock rather than the actual darkness that does it - if so any therapy should already be started on the brink of autumn to be most effective.
One important thing to be aware of is that the most common variety of seasonal depression is already triggered during August to October, not in winter. It seems to be a effect of the shortening daytime (the daily light loss in minutes is strongest around the equinox) on our internal clock rather than the actual darkness that does it - if so any therapy should already be started on the brink of autumn to be most effective.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
This raises an interesting question about the value of "routine". Having a set routine is often touted as advantageous, but perhaps a good chunk of SAD is the result of a collision between routine (especially as governed by an alarm clock) and the natural inclinations, rhythms and desires of the body.
I've just finished a book called Montaillou, a micro-history of a Pyrenean village at the end of the 13th century and beginning of the 14th, and it seems that they did very little more work than they had to. In the absence of artificial light, too, rural villagers seem to have slept a LOT in the winter. This was as true in the 19th century as the 13th.
Personally I hate routine, but perhaps that is in large measure because I dislike even more the pompous puritans and authoritarian killjoys who are so often its advocates.
Cheers,
R.
cz23
-
Sorry I can't offer much because I've never been afflicted with this, despite living in a northern climate. Just want to wish her, you, and your family all the best with it. The one thing that occurs to me is to add vigorous exercise and daily meditation. Both are now considered treatments for all sorts of physical and mental conditions. Again, all the best.
John
John
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
@ sevo, thank you for your remarks on when to start light therapy, I wasn't aware of that preferred early-autumn moment. Especially this year, where we had a good summer with above average sun hours. Wish I'd been aware of this earlier, but will definitely put it into practise next year!
@ Roger, Nina also suffers from delayed sleep-phase disorder which we currently keep at bay with the morning daylight lamp and the evening strong melatonin tablet. Structure is required to keep this rhythm. Might be some ADD involved too but not sure yet on that. She's not taking any medication for it and overall manages to go without.
@ John, thanks! All encouragement just as welcome as any help and advice, it's tough since it takes a lot of energy and also it's hard to explain what's going on to some people, friends and family. I'm trying to get her to try meditation but the ADD-like haphazard thinking patterns don't exactly mix well with that!
Keepin' at it though!
Anybody else here affected by SAD, DSPD, insomnia or what have you? Interested to hear your story and advice!
@ Roger, Nina also suffers from delayed sleep-phase disorder which we currently keep at bay with the morning daylight lamp and the evening strong melatonin tablet. Structure is required to keep this rhythm. Might be some ADD involved too but not sure yet on that. She's not taking any medication for it and overall manages to go without.
@ John, thanks! All encouragement just as welcome as any help and advice, it's tough since it takes a lot of energy and also it's hard to explain what's going on to some people, friends and family. I'm trying to get her to try meditation but the ADD-like haphazard thinking patterns don't exactly mix well with that!
Keepin' at it though!Anybody else here affected by SAD, DSPD, insomnia or what have you? Interested to hear your story and advice!
Paul Jenkin
Well-known
I was never affected by S.A.D. until a few years ago. When I hit my mid 40's, things started slowing down - metabolism-wise. I've tried exercise and diet (probably not as thoroughly as I might have done) but it is a downward spiral.
I'm now 52 (53 in March) and I find each successive winter increasingly difficult. My sleep is disturbed (waking up at ridiculous hours and struggling to get back to sleep - until the alarm kicks in and I could then sleep for England). My moods swing, sometimes uncontrollably and I sometimes have the attention span and memory of a............damn it, I can't remember what my memory span is like.
Anyway, I'm going to give the various treatments (in OP first post) a go. Hopefully, something will work - or it's the knacker's yard for me.
I'm now 52 (53 in March) and I find each successive winter increasingly difficult. My sleep is disturbed (waking up at ridiculous hours and struggling to get back to sleep - until the alarm kicks in and I could then sleep for England). My moods swing, sometimes uncontrollably and I sometimes have the attention span and memory of a............damn it, I can't remember what my memory span is like.
Anyway, I'm going to give the various treatments (in OP first post) a go. Hopefully, something will work - or it's the knacker's yard for me.
ampguy
Veteran
Johann, I hope things get better for you this winter. I would recommend that you continue to visit specialists if you can. I know that Vit D3 is recommended for those in the northern hemispheres. I gave my mother one of those daylight lights, but it was a bit complicated for her to program so she didn't continue with it. I have heard that some folks take Wellbutrin for ADD and/or SAD, but I don't know what those side effects may be, so you may want to ask your local dr. about it, or other options. Stay well.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
@Paul I sure hope those 'tricks' in my OP may be of some help to you!
The symptoms you describe are what my daughter is suffering too, her attention span and memory suffer from this, as well as her eloquence in both speech and writing. Very frustrating for a girl who once set her heart on moving to Japan and taught herself Japanese, and who until recently wrote remarkable poetry in both Dutch and English. It's all so much more of a struggle now.
Anybody who has suggestions on how to recoup the loss of language skills from SAD, please share.
AmpGuy, not sure what the drug Wellbutrin actually is or what it would be called in the EU or NL, but I'm going to look into it. If it's anything homeopathy-based that would be best, the pure chemical drugs have proven to have an impact on Nina's liver, causing more fatigue... We're looking to find that delicate balance that will work best for her.
Thanks folks, your ideas and suggestions truly are appreciated!
The symptoms you describe are what my daughter is suffering too, her attention span and memory suffer from this, as well as her eloquence in both speech and writing. Very frustrating for a girl who once set her heart on moving to Japan and taught herself Japanese, and who until recently wrote remarkable poetry in both Dutch and English. It's all so much more of a struggle now.
Anybody who has suggestions on how to recoup the loss of language skills from SAD, please share.
AmpGuy, not sure what the drug Wellbutrin actually is or what it would be called in the EU or NL, but I'm going to look into it. If it's anything homeopathy-based that would be best, the pure chemical drugs have proven to have an impact on Nina's liver, causing more fatigue... We're looking to find that delicate balance that will work best for her.
Thanks folks, your ideas and suggestions truly are appreciated!
Do you have any relatives or friends in the Southern Hemisphere? Perhaps she should fly south for the winter. But I'm truly sorry to hear of her condition. Down here in Tasmania (42 deg Sth) the winter days can get very short (of course the reverse is true in summer). The saving grace is when the sun shines in winter (as it often does) the light is incredible. Residents of Tasmania are actively encouraged to get some Vitamin D into them during winter in contrast to mainlaind states of Australia (hats off for school children in winter school terms). Still, I'm sure the conditions are not as bad as your locality. I'm sending my best wishes to Nina and all your family. Keep at the problem, no matter what.
Best,
Brett
Best,
Brett
iamzip
Ambitious, but rubbish
Fish oil. Make sure you buy high quality stuff; we buy Nordic Naturals brand here in the states. If you can't find that brand, make sure you read the label to see how much omega 3 each capsule contains - the amount listed on the front of the label is usually the amount of fish oil per dose, but not the amount of omega 3's per dose (for example, the Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega contains 640mg total Omega 3's per 1000mg capsule, most other brands only contain half as much Omega 3's per 1000-1200mg capsule). She may need to take as much as 2x the recommended dose of even the higher quality stuff, but I would start with the recommended dose and see how that does.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Thanks Brett, unfortunately no relatives in the southern hemisphere and she is till attending college, so no extensive midwinter holidays either... It is an idea though, has been for a long time!
Fish oil, sounds interesting! I'll dive into it! Figuratively that is...
Fish oil, sounds interesting! I'll dive into it! Figuratively that is...
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
Here are some ideas that might help -
Keep her active - regular exercise of some kind that she enjoys 4 or 5 days per week.
Get out of the house - sitting home too much can drag a person down.
Stay active in a hobby or activity.
Keep in contact with friends - get together with them regularly.
Get lots of vitamin C - oranges and orange juice are good sources.
Avoid too much TV or time on the computer - substitute reading a book for computer time.
Do some reading on meditation - give it a try. Believe me, it works.
Hope this helps...
iamzip
Ambitious, but rubbish
How is everything going?
JChrome
Street Worker
Having battled depression before (but not SAD), I can tell you that meditation is incredibly helpful. It goes hand in hand with exercise (which is meditative in many ways).
I wish you and your family the best during these tough times.
I wish you and your family the best during these tough times.
btgc
Veteran
I think most of helpful things and activieties have been mentioned. It's really hard to draw conclusions not knowing her and family (as closest surrounding has impact on each of us). Activities according to her constitution (not everything works best for everyone), diet (not everyhing works works best for everyone, but mainly watch black tea, coffee, sweets, wheat, nightshades, fish vs red meat etc.) and socialization (friends, interests, hobbies vs passive stuff like tv and computer), routines (e.g. going to bed not too late, waking up before sunrise etc.).
Wish you strength and patience finding ways helping your daughter!
Wish you strength and patience finding ways helping your daughter!
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Any news?
BAD depression today (shortest day of the year).
It may sound like an odd thing to say, but send her my love. I'm 63. I never thought I'd see 50. Unless they are real arseholes (and there are plenty of those on the internet), even people who have never met you will normally wish you well: even to the extent of sending "love".
Cheers,
R.
BAD depression today (shortest day of the year).
It may sound like an odd thing to say, but send her my love. I'm 63. I never thought I'd see 50. Unless they are real arseholes (and there are plenty of those on the internet), even people who have never met you will normally wish you well: even to the extent of sending "love".
Cheers,
R.