Super Ikonta III Novar lens question.

[Grytpype]

A couple of years ago I bought a Super Ikonta III 531/16. It has the 75mm f3.5 Novar and a Prontor shutter, so it's perhaps not the Super Ikonta's finest hour, but still rather a nice camera. Mostly it's in very good condition, but unfortunately it looks as though someone has changed film at the beach, and subsequently 'cleaned' the rear element without clearing off the sand first. I'm not overly picky about the odd scratch or blemish, but this lens is really not usable. The rest of the optics look excellent.

I've been keeping my eye on eBay in the hope of finding a 'spares' camera with a good lens (most likely an Ikonta 521/16), but cameras rough enough to scrap seem to be rarer than hens' teeth.

Does anyone know whether the elements in these lenses are matched? If so, I really need to find a spares camera with all 3 good (very unlikely). If not, I just need to find one with a decent rear-element, which might be possible eventually if I keep looking.

Steve.

 

[sevo]

As far as I can make out by the service manuals for other Zeiss Ikons, they probably were not matched, but they were collimated and shimmed on a per body/per shutter base.

Personally I suppose it is easier to find a affordable camera with complete, clean Novar than one where only the front lens is broken - it was the regular lens on many lesser Zeiss Ikons, while few to no sellers state which component in a spares camera is good.

 

[Scrambler]

My Nettar 515 has the Novar 75mm in a Klio shutter. I haven't taken the lens apart to see but I would be very surprised if the lens elements couldn't be swapped out with your shutter. Critical focus would be the issue but as already suggested should be fairly readily shimmed to correct. My camera was less then $50 - in general parted-out lenses seem to cost more than whole cameras, or so it seems to me.

 

[Beemermark]

It's not that hard to replace the entire lens and shutter on the Ikonta's. A screwed retaining ring holds the shutter to the front lens panel. Any lens of the same focal length should work. The 4 element lenses on the Russian Mockva copies are better than the Novar. I'd look for one of those to cannibalize.

 

[oftheherd]

It's not that hard to replace the entire lens and shutter on the Ikonta's. A screwed retaining ring holds the shutter to the front lens panel. Any lens of the same focal length should work. The 4 element lenses on the Russian Mockva copies are better than the Novar. I'd look for one of those to cannibalize.

That's intriguing, can you show some examples?

 

[ZeissFan]

You can't do this with a Super Ikonta III. You need another lens from a Super Ikonta III or IV. You can swap out the entire shutter/lens assembly, but the donor items must come from a Super Ikonta III or IV.

The reason?

It has a coupled rangefinder, and the pitch of helicals in the Novar and Tessar is different from the Novar and the Tessar in the zone focus models, as well as the Mess Ikontas.

The amount of rotation from infinity to the closest distance in the Super Ikonta III and IV is about 45 degrees. For the zone focus and Mess Ikonta, it's about 120 degrees.

That's why the lens elements aren't interchangeable, although they will fit.

 

[Grytpype]

Food for thought! I had assumed that to adjust the lens for focus all I would need to do would be to set the position of the focus-ring on the front lens element, but would I need to re-shim the shutter/lens unit on the body as well? Is it just that the mount shimming needs to be set up so the focus can move through its full range?

You can't do this with a Super Ikonta III. You need another lens from a Super Ikonta III or IV. You can swap out the entire shutter/lens assembly, but the donor items must come from a Super Ikonta III or IV.

Presumably I'd be OK swapping just the rear-element from a similar lens, Mike, even if it came from an Ikonta? If so this looks like the way to go.

I did wonder if the Novar/Prontor unit might be interchangeable with the Tessar/Compur combination (though the Tessar is 80mm, I think), but since it would have to come from a Super Ikonta, even a really rough example would be too pricey to make it viable.

Thanks for all the information.

Steve.

 

[sevo]

You should be able to swap the rear - or go one level deeper and swap the lenses rather than the cell assemblies.

 

[ZeissFan]

I think with the Novar that you might be able to swap the rear elements. You might need to reset the infinity point, but it should be workable.

You could swap a Tessar from a Super Ikonta III or IV. I did this with my Super Ikonta. I had a nice body with a Compur/Novar, and a bad body with a Compur/Tessar.

The Super Ikonta III and IV are different from the previous versions and use a rangefinder system unlike any other Super Ikonta or Zeiss Ikon rangefinder.

By the way, you'll encounter similar problems with other Super Ikonta B cameras in that the lenses aren't interchangeable between the 530/16 and 532/16 or even the prewar and postwar 532/16 -- or the BX model, for that matter.

 

[Grytpype]

You should be able to swap the rear - or go one level deeper and swap the lenses rather than the cell assemblies.

Thanks, sevo. Yes, I had wondered about that, but I wasn't sure whether the front elements were both removable from the helical.

I think with the Novar that you might be able to swap the rear elements. You might need to reset the infinity point, but it should be workable.

Thanks, Mike. The search for a spares Ikonta will continue. Everything comes up on eBay eventually!