Surprise with Biogon 25mm on Zeiss ZM

[briz]

Hi,
Got my Biogon 25mm ZM a few hours ago. But i was surprised that when I put it on the camera it showed up the 35mm framelines.... Doesn't it have to show the 28mm framelines.??? Thanks.

 

[ampguy]

I think it was changed sometime after the M8 came out, which pairs the 35 framelines with a 24 set of framelines. You may be able to find someone with an older one who would trade, or see if the dealer or factory has a mount swap program.

 

[binky]

hi briz

no, it's normal to show the 35 framelines (default). I actually asked Zeiss in Europe about this, and they said so. But I think you can get the mount replaced for 28. The alternatives are: to just live with and use the whole viewfinder as a reference; to get the very nice but very expensive Zeiss external finder; to get the very functional Voigtlander finder.

I actually have the Zeiss finder, but I never use it, preferring to just use the built in + estimating. I suggest you try it out before getting an external finder.

If you want to get it to pop up the 28 framelines, I believe you can send it back to Zeiss USA or Europe for a fee. Or you can see if a local camera repair shop can do the same. Personally, I tried it with the frameline toggle to see what it's like with the 28mm, and I found myself framing things at 28 rather than "seeing beyond". And a couple of times I thought I had on a 35mm lens, only to realize more stuff in my pictures (nice surprise)

BTW, it's a very nice lens...enjoy

john

 

[BTMarcais]

Mine's a bit older and brings up the 28/90 lines (well, if I HAD 28 lines; I have an M3 and a .85 M6TTL, so it just brings up the 90 frame).
I use an external VF for framing anyway.

-Brian

 

[briz]

I think it's not 'normal'. An ZM lens is primary dedicated to the Zeiss Ikon ZM system ... They should sell two diffrent variants for film and for digital.
I sent a request to Zeiss Germany to see what they say.... I think they should and must replace the mount for free!

 

[ampguy]

hmm

hmm

I'd guess the target market for ZM lenses is the whole M-mount camera ecosystem which includes M8s, Bessas, etc.

They could have 2 models, but probably don't sell enough to warrant that.

Just curious, what framelines do CV M-mount 25s bring up?

I think it's not 'normal'. An ZM lens is primary dedicated to the Zeiss Ikon ZM system ... They should sell two diffrent variants for film and for digital.
I sent a request to Zeiss Germany to see what they say.... I think they should and must replace the mount for free!

 

[binky]

I think it's not 'normal'. An ZM lens is primary dedicated to the Zeiss Ikon ZM system ... They should sell two diffrent variants for film and for digital.
I sent a request to Zeiss Germany to see what they say.... I think they should and must replace the mount for free!

here's my reply from Zeiss Europe:

"On analogue M mount cameras (e.g. Zeiss Ikon camera), there are no corresponding framelines in the camera´s finder that correspond with the angle of view of a 25mm lens. So it does not matter which framelines are switched automatically by the lens. An external viewfinder is always necessary to see the correct angle of view.

In digital M mount rangefinder cameras (e.g. Leica M8, M8.2), there are framelines that correspond with the angle of view of a 24mm lens. So the Biogon T* 2,8/25 lenses that have been optimized for the M8/M8.2 camera are equipped with a bayonet mount that engages the 24/35mm framelines in the viewfinder of this camera.
Because many of the Biogon 25mm lenses are used on a digital rangefinder camera, the bayonet mount rings had been exchanged on some of them.

On request, we can exchange the bayonet mount ring of each ZM lens for engaging any of the available viewfinder framelines. The price for this service is 60,- Euro (plus shipping plus VAT).
Please note that the Zeiss Ikon camera is not equipped with framelines that correspond with any lens below 28mm focal length! So we strongly recommend the use of the external clip-on viewfinder with 25/28mm framelines:

https://photo-shop.zeiss.com/en/Products/1365-664


Best Regards"


I don't have a digital Leica to corroborate their statement about the 24/35 frameline...I did ask for getting it fixed, but decided not to send it to Germany because I didn't want to pay 60+ Euros (shipping, insurance, wait, etc)

See if you can get the place where you bought your lens from to intercede

good luck

 

[binky]

I'd guess the target market for ZM lenses is the whole M-mount camera ecosystem which includes M8s, Bessas, etc.

They could have 2 models, but probably don't sell enough to warrant that.

Just curious, what framelines do CV M-mount 25s bring up?

From Stephen Gandy's:

"The 25/4P in Leica M mount lens brings up the 35/135 framelines in Leica M film cameras, or the 35/24 frameline on the Leica M8."

going by that, it seems to be the same. I guess if one day after selling enough blood to buy a digital Leica, I could use my 25mm lens with an unmodified mount...

 

[ampguy]

Ok

Ok

but there is also this sentence in the 21/4P's area on the same page, probably a typo, or old info.:

"The 25/4P in Leica M mount lens brings up the 28/90 framelines in Leica M cameras."

From Stephen Gandy's:

"The 25/4P in Leica M mount lens brings up the 35/135 framelines in Leica M film cameras, or the 35/24 frameline on the Leica M8."

going by that, it seems to be the same. I guess if one day after selling enough blood to buy a digital Leica, I could use my 25mm lens with an unmodified mount...

 

[binky]

this gets more interesting

 

[kully]

I don't understand why you think it must bring up the 28mm frameline - it's a 25mm lens so both 35 and 28 frames are wrong, but the 35 frame is at least right on one camera in existence.

 

[hiromu]

Just curious, what framelines do CV M-mount 25s bring up?

My Skopar 25mm brings up the right frame set on M8, 24/35.

 

[briz]

I don't understand why you think it must bring up the 28mm frameline - it's a 25mm lens so both 35 and 28 frames are wrong, but the 35 frame is at least right on one camera in existence.

The 28mm frameline gives a ' less approximative ' framing than the 35mm frameline does.....but I understand that Zeiss wants to sell external viewfinders....😀

 

[jonmanjiro]

I've owned two Zeiss ZM 25/2.8 lenses. Both brought up the 28mm frameline.

Edited to add: both were early production lenses. Later production lenses apparently bring up the 35mm frameline.

 

[jke]

Why would the 28mm frameline be preferable to the 35mm frameline? Both are inaccurate for a 25mm lens, and the frameline situation isn't going to have any affect on the performance of the lens. If framelines were going to be an issue, seems like the 25mm lens was the wrong one to get. The Voigtlander 25mm finder is $130. The conversion will be nearly that (with shipping and insurance) and will not make any functional difference.😕

 

[semordnilap]

binky is right. they were first shipped with the 28mm framelines because that was the standard for wider lenses on m's, since none had a vf wider than 28, the logic was to use the widest framelines. when the m8 came out people (like myself) began writing zeiss and asking about the conversion, and i think some dealers too, so apparently zeiss made some 25s available with flange for the 25/35 framelines. so now there's both floating around, and it can be confusing. i do wish that mine had the 24/35 flange, as the difference between the 28 and 24 lines on the m8 is larger than you would think... but i may just purchase a replacement, milled flange from john milich if he's still doing it. one of these days...!!!