Taking the ASPH plunge!

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robbo

Robbo
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I'd like to thank everone on the forum who's contributed to the threads about 35mm lenses. There is some superb advice offered and it's really helped me to weigh up all the pros and cons of the various lenses available. Like many others, I've waivered between the usual candidates - 'cron, 'lux and Biogon but have finally decided to go down to London tomorrow and have a look at a 35 Summicron ASPH to go on my M4-P. Hopefully a deal can be struck, but if not I guess I'll just have to be patient. I don't know about elsewhere, but in England there seems to be a real shortage of 35s at the moment, so they are commanding high prices.
 
Tell us why the asph summicron over the other choices. It's a very good lens but would like to know your thinking.
 
X-ray, I may be wrong, but seems like you're pushing up Biogon 35mm...:).
I'm indeed notice the Biogon gets some rave reviews and in certain fields tops the 'cron asph (in technical reviews) - really makes me wondering about twice (or even more) price difference...
I don't own either 35mm lens, but feel I'll be on the fence for one in some foreseable future. The 'cron asph certainly attracts on its own, but the price bites painfully, which obviously brings Biogon up for my consideration.
What I really like in 'cron is its square hood, does Biogon also come with such ? Or at least can the square one be purchased separately for Biogon ?

BTW, I remember in one of the recent threads about 35mm lenses, you mentioned there is only one type of 35mm 'cron that you would consider, probably some kind of classic from 60s ? Can you please remind me which one (type and years) ? Why would you still consider such considering you satisfaction by the current Biogon ?

I'm just curious and willing to learn in order to make a wise choice ..

I also thought probably just to get my feet wet into 35mm perspective to try out Color Skopar II - it appears sporting unbilievably good optics to its price...

P.S. robbo, sorry t hijacking your thread...
 
alexz said:
...What I really like in 'cron is its square hood, does Biogon also come with such ? Or at least can the square one be purchased separately for Biogon ?...
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You must purchase a round hood separately. The same hood is made for the 35mm and the 50mm lenses.

Robbo: I'm an ASPH 'cron owner. This lens will give you very crisp outlines. With selective focus (e.g., sharply-outlined subject against blurred background) a photo with this lens can almost look like it was taken with a short telephoto.

Why don't you shoot a roll in the store and have it developed before taking the plunge?
 
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I bought mine after asking advice on here. I was actually looking for a version 4 and very happy I ended up with the asph. It really does give, when shot at wide apertures, a 3D effect to photos which as has been mentioned looks quite telephoto in appearance. Never had a go with the biogon but imho looks too big and ugly with that chrome front. The push and clip square hood is great on the asph and i've seen no vignetting with mine as against plenty i've seen using the round type black paint hoods.
If it's what you want be patient, one will come up at the right price and as the saying goes ' buy cheap, buy twice '. You won't regret the wait and if you dont like it (highly unlikely) you can always sell after a usual Leica price rise and make money on it!
 
alexz said:
X-ray, I may be wrong, but seems like you're pushing up Biogon 35mm...:).
I'm indeed notice the Biogon gets some rave reviews and in certain fields tops the 'cron asph (in technical reviews) - really makes me wondering about twice (or even more) price difference...
I don't own either 35mm lens, but feel I'll be on the fence for one in some foreseable future. The 'cron asph certainly attracts on its own, but the price bites painfully, which obviously brings Biogon up for my consideration.
What I really like in 'cron is its square hood, does Biogon also come with such ? Or at least can the square one be purchased separately for Biogon ?

BTW, I remember in one of the recent threads about 35mm lenses, you mentioned there is only one type of 35mm 'cron that you would consider, probably some kind of classic from 60s ? Can you please remind me which one (type and years) ? Why would you still consider such considering you satisfaction by the current Biogon ?

I'm just curious and willing to learn in order to make a wise choice ..

I also thought probably just to get my feet wet into 35mm perspective to try out Color Skopar II - it appears sporting unbilievably good optics to its price...

P.S. robbo, sorry t hijacking your thread...
Click to expand...


I think there is a square hood for the Biogon but not certain. My round hood for the asph just dodn't do the trick and no question the rectangular hood for the asph is a good design and very effective. it solved the flare problem that was happening with the round.

Please don't think I'm asking why about his choice just to push the Biogon. I just wanted to know his perspective.

As you might know i have the asph summicron, Biogon and Nokton 35's. Previously I had the v1 35 summilux, v1 35 summicron and v4 35 summicron. I used thm extensively for many years and have shot Leica glass since 1968. I have a little experience but very limited with the v2 and none with the v3 summicrons. The v1 summilux and v1 summicron leave much to be desired IMO. Check the Opinions on 35 summilux thread to see samples of problems with the summilux. The v1 summicron is OK but soft at 2 and a good bit of fall off of illumination untill you stop down a couple of stops. The v2 improved on this and the v4 was a nice lens and certaily made nice images and was very usable at f2. I do like the smoothness of tone with the v4. Tha asph is killer sharp but to me a little artificial looking. It's kinda like video tape vs 35mm motion picture. I describe the v4 and Biogon as organic in nature and the asph as inorganic and hard. The Biogon has that smooth tonality of the v4 and the sharpness of the asph without being harsh. Personal taste. I do not like the construction of the later leica lenses. My v4 had problems at one time and none to date with the asph. The Biogon has been no problems. Ergonomics I disliked the v4 and love the Biogon and find the asph fine but don't like the focusing tab as much as a focusing ring. Again personal taste on ergonomics. What iritates me is a joy to someone else.

It disturbs me when people thnk the Biogon is good because of price but don't really look at it's performance. IMO the Biogon outperforms the asph very slightly and I mean very very slightly. Again for me if both were the same price and I could only choose one it owuld be the Biogon but that's a personal thing again.

I sold my v1 summicron because I disliked the softness at f2 where I shoot often. I bought the v4 and used it for about 15 years. It was a very nice lens and made great images. I then built another kit and bought the Biogon because of ergonomics mainly. Next I won a new hammertone MP, leicavit and 35 asph retro in the LHSA drawing this year. I do like the asph for some subjects and the Biogon for other so I sold the v4. I didn't need 4 35's. If I could buy one summicron and only on it would be close between the v4 and the asph. If I could only own one 35 it would be the Biogon.

Looking at other folks photography and seeing the trends in super sharp, high contrast and over saturation I understand how some people would luve the asph over the Biogon. It's like what model of car should I buy or I love the look of that woman and not the one beside her. All personal taste. I really don't think there are any bad lenses being made today (non zooms). Any of the CV, Konica, Zeiss or Leica lenses are killers and far better than what we had just a few years ago. Compared to what I was shooting with in the 60's and 70's the least performing lens of today kills the ones I made a living with back then. All are super sharp now with very good contrast but flare controll is important to me, ergonomics and durability are at the top.
 
I'm a curious bystander on the asph. cron v. biogon debate, mostly because my decision has already been made--I purchased my Summicron when the biogon was still unproven.

x-ray, since you own both lenses, it would be useful to see comparison shots, taken of the same scene, with these. I realize this is asking a lot, because such comparisons (without a digital body on hand) are time-consuming to perform. If anyone reading this thread is in the Austin area and would like to compare their Biogon with my Summicron, I'd certainly welcome a brief lens trade to see how these stack up under similar shooting conditions.
 
X-ray, I was writing as you posted, so your last answer really goes a long way to describing the differences (which I know you've written about before). Thanks for the follow-up.
 
alexz said:
What I really like in 'cron is its square hood, does Biogon also come with such ? Or at least can the square one be purchased separately for Biogon ?

...
Click to expand...

From what I can tell the Biogon is not really in great need of a hood at all. Fantastic flare-free performance. Which is good because it is slightly big for a 35/2 but without the hood it's the same size or smaller than most other 35's using a hood.
 
J J Kapsberger said:
Gotta have the hood, man. It looks so much cooler.
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Well, maybe. I think the Biogon looks pretty cool without the hood too. At least on my black MP and CL.
 
well, you can't go wrong with the asph, especially if you shoot color film, the rendering is so good. Like x-ray said, it depends on your tastes. I've a 35mm summilux asph and a v4 summicron, the v4 summicron has a really great bokeh, very nice sharpness at f/2 and has an old look in b&w whereas the ASPH shines with color film and has a great bokeh too but quite different.
It also depends on the price you're able to spend ;)
 
You'll love the asph! Don't get me wrong because I love it and i'm extremely fortunate to have the three lenses that I have.

If I shot landscapes and buildings I would choode the asph. It has an edge that lends itself very well to those subjects. I shoot images with people 90% of the time and just like the smoother less edgy look of the Biogon. The differences seem to get exagerated and in reality the differences won't knock you out of your chair.

One thing I'll say about the lenses of today is they're all great. We have choices beyond anything we've ever seen in the RF world. We have all the vintage glass and all kinds and makes of new technology glass.

Speeking of vintage glass i still love my old 1930's Leitz lenses and just purchased a really lovely 1946 Summitar from one of the RFF'ers. Sometimes it's not about sharpness but what it takes to fulfill the mood of the day. Sometimes it's the feel and nostalgic experience of the machine and other days it's the nostalgic look of the image.
 
Thanks guys, thank you X-ray.
Now you put 'cron v4 on my map as well. Is that what people call a pre-ASPH ? How should I recognize V4 35mm 'cron ? What is its S/N range ? What is it's fair price range today ? Should it come with rectangular hood as well ?
Chances v4 'cron will stuck up againts Biogon in my list...(perhaps after my initial experience with Color Skopar 35mm/2.5 which I'll probaly pick as soon as will spot one here on RFF for sale...)
 
it's an excellent lens

it's an excellent lens

I myself an current comparing the asph 35/2 with a v4 pre asph. details are over in the bay area regional section. It's definitely bigger, that's about all I can say so far with about 10 rolls on the asph, and 1 roll on the pre-asph as of today.


robbo said:
I'd like to thank everone on the forum who's contributed to the threads about 35mm lenses. There is some superb advice offered and it's really helped me to weigh up all the pros and cons of the various lenses available. Like many others, I've waivered between the usual candidates - 'cron, 'lux and Biogon but have finally decided to go down to London tomorrow and have a look at a 35 Summicron ASPH to go on my M4-P. Hopefully a deal can be struck, but if not I guess I'll just have to be patient. I don't know about elsewhere, but in England there seems to be a real shortage of 35s at the moment, so they are commanding high prices.
Click to expand...
 
ampguy said:
I myself an current comparing the asph 35/2 with a v4 pre asph. details are over in the bay area regional section. It's definitely bigger, that's about all I can say so far with about 10 rolls on the asph, and 1 roll on the pre-asph as of today.
Click to expand...

Who is bigger ASPH or v4 ? Please tell us more as you progress with your comparison...
 
x-ray said:
Tell us why the asph summicron over the other choices. It's a very good lens but would like to know your thinking.
Click to expand...

At the moment, with all other things being (fairly) equal, the build quality and size are the things influencing me. Xray, your comments have been very helpful, as have those of Magus and I think it was he who raised the point of controlling some of the ASPH's characteristics at the development stage. However, the deal has yet to be struck, so watch this space!
 
size

size

The asph is slightly bigger, maybe 15%, both use e39 filters and while they came with different hood #'s, they appear to look the same, and work on each other.

The pre-asph v4 is about the size of the 40 Rokkor if you've used that lens.

alexz said:
Who is bigger ASPH or v4 ? Please tell us more as you progress with your comparison...
Click to expand...
 
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