dmr
Registered Abuser
The main reason I don't shoot as much film as I used to a few years back is that getting it processed can best be described as a total pain in the tush! 
The one remaining local lab seems to be on a three-day schedule now and hey, I want instant gratification! I used to be able to drop film off over lunch at the Walgreens about 6 blocks away and pick up the negatives and the CD mid afternoon on my way home.
Anyway, I'm considering, very seriously, trying home development of color negative film and I've researched all kinds of things during this last trip and I know some (many) of you do this at home so I thought I would do a sanity check here and ask a few possibly stupid questions.
I have, in the past, developed B&W film (or rather assisted/observed) back in college. I didn't particularly enjoy it so I never took up home processing. I do know more or less how to do it. I also have lab experience so I'm comfortable and confident mixing and measuring and such.
Here's what I've come up with as a list of what I'll need, regarding the actual special things:
1. Tank and reel. I'm thinking of starting with the 8 oz. single reel tank.
2. Film thermometer. I have a candy thermometer which starts out at 100F but I don't think it's that accurate.
3. Film squeegee.
I can get all of the above locally with no problem at all.
I've already got, or can get with no problem, things like ...
Kitty litter pan for warming (tempering) the solutions.
1L. soda bottles. (Hey, if they hold carbonation, they should be gas-impermeable, right?)
Clip type clothes hangers and a few extra clothes pins.
Paper towels, sponges, etc.
Big Burning Question #1: Am I missing anything obvious?
I've read all kinds of threads on APUG and such and I think I have a good idea of the process.
The big thing I'll need is a color processing kit and this is where I could use some advice as far as which one, etc. I can't get this locally and I've looked on the web sites from the "usual suspect" dealers and found several similar kits.
I **KNOW** I'll prefer an all-liquid kit. Less muss and fuss! Almost a no-brainer, for me that is.
They all look almost identical, but the one that caught my attention is from Cinestill, and that's a film I've enjoyed shooting recently. I'm probably gonna try a 1L/1Qt. kit first to get the feel of things. There's also Arista, Tetenal, and a few others.
Big Burning Question #2: Is there REALLY any major difference between these kits? Is there one which is REALLY better than the others?
There's also a Rollei kit which is more spendy than the others, and the big difference I can see is that Rollei *CLAIMS* to process about twice as many rolls as the other 1L/1Qt kits. Is the Rollei kit REALLY that much better? (There are people who swear they have done 24 rolls or so with the Arista/Tetenal 1L/1Qt kits.)
It looks like, time-wise, I should be able to do a roll in, conservatively, about an hour, including set-up, tempering, clean-up, and put-away. Is this realistic?
Thanks everyone!
The one remaining local lab seems to be on a three-day schedule now and hey, I want instant gratification! I used to be able to drop film off over lunch at the Walgreens about 6 blocks away and pick up the negatives and the CD mid afternoon on my way home.Anyway, I'm considering, very seriously, trying home development of color negative film and I've researched all kinds of things during this last trip and I know some (many) of you do this at home so I thought I would do a sanity check here and ask a few possibly stupid questions.
I have, in the past, developed B&W film (or rather assisted/observed) back in college. I didn't particularly enjoy it so I never took up home processing. I do know more or less how to do it. I also have lab experience so I'm comfortable and confident mixing and measuring and such.
Here's what I've come up with as a list of what I'll need, regarding the actual special things:
1. Tank and reel. I'm thinking of starting with the 8 oz. single reel tank.
2. Film thermometer. I have a candy thermometer which starts out at 100F but I don't think it's that accurate.
3. Film squeegee.
I can get all of the above locally with no problem at all.
I've already got, or can get with no problem, things like ...
Kitty litter pan for warming (tempering) the solutions.
1L. soda bottles. (Hey, if they hold carbonation, they should be gas-impermeable, right?)
Clip type clothes hangers and a few extra clothes pins.
Paper towels, sponges, etc.
Big Burning Question #1: Am I missing anything obvious?
I've read all kinds of threads on APUG and such and I think I have a good idea of the process.
The big thing I'll need is a color processing kit and this is where I could use some advice as far as which one, etc. I can't get this locally and I've looked on the web sites from the "usual suspect" dealers and found several similar kits.
I **KNOW** I'll prefer an all-liquid kit. Less muss and fuss! Almost a no-brainer, for me that is.
They all look almost identical, but the one that caught my attention is from Cinestill, and that's a film I've enjoyed shooting recently. I'm probably gonna try a 1L/1Qt. kit first to get the feel of things. There's also Arista, Tetenal, and a few others.
Big Burning Question #2: Is there REALLY any major difference between these kits? Is there one which is REALLY better than the others?
There's also a Rollei kit which is more spendy than the others, and the big difference I can see is that Rollei *CLAIMS* to process about twice as many rolls as the other 1L/1Qt kits. Is the Rollei kit REALLY that much better? (There are people who swear they have done 24 rolls or so with the Arista/Tetenal 1L/1Qt kits.)
It looks like, time-wise, I should be able to do a roll in, conservatively, about an hour, including set-up, tempering, clean-up, and put-away. Is this realistic?
Thanks everyone!
sepiareverb
genius and moron
You are going to scan everything afterwards? This chore has always shut down my desire to run color at home.
jamin-b
Well-known
What pushed me over the top was the decision to invest in an Anova heater [ https://anovaculinary.com/ ] to ensure temperature control (also useful in the kitchen for accurate sous vide preparation). The choice of chemicals for me was easy - I bought the only one that comes in powder form (Unicolor C41) since I live outside of the US and needed to transport the chemicals in my suitcase...If you do b/w processing the color really isn't very much more complicated or demanding. I also use a smartphone app for time (massive dev chart) + these gadgets [ https://www.amazon.com/Vacu-Vin-Vacuum-Bottle-Stoppers/dp/B000GA3KCE ] with old bourbon bottles to keep my chemicals under vacuum when not in use - I am a newbie so can't tell you yet how effective this has been in prolonging the life of the chemicals. I put on some jazz and get into a groove following the different stages, and it is still magic to me to see the developed negatives emerge from the tank...
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Better thermometer, yes. Squeeze - no. Add photo-flo into stabilizer instead.
Squeeze bottles to have less, no air. I'm keeping my color kit bottles in the fridge. I have one kit over the year and it was working. Yes, I have done over 24 rolls in this 1L Telenal kit.
Get good scanner with ICE. My choice would be latest Plustek. And empty binders with archival sleeves, plus large Rocket Blower.
You could buy cinefilm cheap in bulks and skip paying for Cinestill. Use separate set of C-41 chemicals for it and washing soda before developing to remove remjet.
Something like one year old ECN-2 kit and old Fuji 250D in it. Temperature was around 24C.
Squeeze bottles to have less, no air. I'm keeping my color kit bottles in the fridge. I have one kit over the year and it was working. Yes, I have done over 24 rolls in this 1L Telenal kit.
Get good scanner with ICE. My choice would be latest Plustek. And empty binders with archival sleeves, plus large Rocket Blower.
You could buy cinefilm cheap in bulks and skip paying for Cinestill. Use separate set of C-41 chemicals for it and washing soda before developing to remove remjet.
Something like one year old ECN-2 kit and old Fuji 250D in it. Temperature was around 24C.
brbo
Well-known
Whatever C-41 kit will be fine. Kits with separate bleach and fix will perform better/longer. Cinestill kit is probably 2x the price of the kit that they repackage, but if you like Cinestill - support them.
You don't need squeegee (it's actually better to avoid it) and you don't need photo-flo in stabilizer.
Buy a proper thermometer and do a test 3:15min run with water (you don't even have to put film on the reel) to see how big a temperature drop you will be working with.
There are only two things to worry with C-41 development:
1. developer temperature and constant agitation during developer stage (start agitation immediately)
2. QUICK change from developer to bleach stage
Once the bleach is in the tank just relax, you can't possibly do anything wrong from then on...
You don't need squeegee (it's actually better to avoid it) and you don't need photo-flo in stabilizer.
Buy a proper thermometer and do a test 3:15min run with water (you don't even have to put film on the reel) to see how big a temperature drop you will be working with.
There are only two things to worry with C-41 development:
1. developer temperature and constant agitation during developer stage (start agitation immediately)
2. QUICK change from developer to bleach stage
Once the bleach is in the tank just relax, you can't possibly do anything wrong from then on...
DownUnder
Nikon Nomad
With C41 processing temperature control will make you or break you. If this fluctuates up and down (most likely it will go down), your results will maybe still be usable, but scanning will all the fiddly adjustments you will have to do in post processing,will surely push you over the NQC (Not Quite Certifiable) borderline. This from one who knows!
I went to home processing my own color neg films in 2000. Within the year, I had TWO Jobo processors (the now long discontinued Duolabs) and no end of gadgetry to ensure my films were treated with the care and attention needed for good results.
I did C41 and E6 for a few years, but gave up on slide films. Now I store my exposed films refrigerated until I have 12-16 rolls, which takes me a few weeks (weekends) of shooting., and I then batch process in one lot. The Tetenal kits suited me best when they were sold in one liter kits, but no more. I now have to buy the big kits and keep careful notes to ensure I use them up (50-60 rolls) before the chems die on me. Bummer, but that's life in the 21st century.
Rollei makes a one liter kit and when I've finally used up the last of my seemingly bottomless five liter Tetenal kit, I will go with them.
Also much good advice from many others in this thread. Frankly speaking (or writing), if I had to do all this over again, I would just bite the bullet and have my films processed. Shop around and you may find mail order service from a good one day turnaround lab. Avoid Walmart like the plague, if they still process real films, they are the absolute pits.
For me, two great consolations with shooting and scanning film are one, the super good quality I get from Zeiss lenses on my Contax G1, and I shoot fewer film images, so less scanning time. The post processing hours will be just as long, tho.
All the best, good luck with your results, and do enjoy!
I went to home processing my own color neg films in 2000. Within the year, I had TWO Jobo processors (the now long discontinued Duolabs) and no end of gadgetry to ensure my films were treated with the care and attention needed for good results.
I did C41 and E6 for a few years, but gave up on slide films. Now I store my exposed films refrigerated until I have 12-16 rolls, which takes me a few weeks (weekends) of shooting., and I then batch process in one lot. The Tetenal kits suited me best when they were sold in one liter kits, but no more. I now have to buy the big kits and keep careful notes to ensure I use them up (50-60 rolls) before the chems die on me. Bummer, but that's life in the 21st century.
Rollei makes a one liter kit and when I've finally used up the last of my seemingly bottomless five liter Tetenal kit, I will go with them.
Also much good advice from many others in this thread. Frankly speaking (or writing), if I had to do all this over again, I would just bite the bullet and have my films processed. Shop around and you may find mail order service from a good one day turnaround lab. Avoid Walmart like the plague, if they still process real films, they are the absolute pits.
For me, two great consolations with shooting and scanning film are one, the super good quality I get from Zeiss lenses on my Contax G1, and I shoot fewer film images, so less scanning time. The post processing hours will be just as long, tho.
All the best, good luck with your results, and do enjoy!
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J enea
Established
I use an extra large turkey roaster/ slow cooker to keep the chems at temp. paid like $25 at target and it works perfectly. I use it for color neg and slide film. set it in the warm area and keeps the water bath at 102 for hours. I have a friend who owns a bar, so I use large jack daniels bottles for all the chems. its no harder than doing B&W once you get the water bath issue solved.
I use the Kodak SM chems that I got from unique. I get all 3 baths, developer, fixer and bleach along with the stab. get separate bleach and fix as I prefer the results over a blix (even though I use BLIX for slides). I save up rolls till i get 12 and then mix up 1.5 liters of the developer to do a batch. Bleach lasts almost forever ( an exaggeration) and fix is cheap and readily available. so the large chem issue is developer and using it before part C goes bad.
Its not that hard, just give it a try. its a lot easier to do than you think, just dont psyche yourself out over it.
I use the Kodak SM chems that I got from unique. I get all 3 baths, developer, fixer and bleach along with the stab. get separate bleach and fix as I prefer the results over a blix (even though I use BLIX for slides). I save up rolls till i get 12 and then mix up 1.5 liters of the developer to do a batch. Bleach lasts almost forever ( an exaggeration) and fix is cheap and readily available. so the large chem issue is developer and using it before part C goes bad.
Its not that hard, just give it a try. its a lot easier to do than you think, just dont psyche yourself out over it.
Jake Mongey
Well-known
I dont think the kit matters that much but with the rollei digibase kit It provides the option to actually develop at room temp which ive found a huge advantage. But the tetenal kit is also good as well.
benlees
Well-known
Doing colour is no harder than b&w, save the constant temp. Take it slow and it will be great!
Colour chems are definitely less pleasurable to be around Minimize spills and whatnot.
Colour chems are definitely less pleasurable to be around
Minimize spills and whatnot.
dmr
Registered Abuser
First of all, thanks to all. This kind of stuff is exactly what I'm looking for.
Yes, and this part I already have set up and running just fine (knock on wood). I don't find it difficult at all. I'll often just get a DO and then scan them, batch mode, 6 at a time, and re-scan those I want for a high quality print.
For now I'll just try keeping the temperature close to constant in a kitty litter pan.. We have an "island" sink with an extension spigot so I can add hot/cold as needed.
I do know where there's an unused Jobo machine locally, which I could probably get for a song and a dance if I decide to really get into this, but that's far down the road.
One take-away I'm definitely hearing is keeping O2 out of stored chemical bottles. That Bloxygen is interesting, first I've ever heard of it, and I can see how it works. I know that Argon is inert and it should be more dense than O2, so it should be easy to use it to keep O2 (and N2 and H2O vapor) out of bottles. For now I'm probably gonna just squeeze the air out.
The number one take-away on this, both here and on "another network", seems to be attention to detail WRT mixing, measuring, timing, and temperature. I get it!
I saw one thread which recommended using a stop bath (diluted white vinegar or lab grade acetic acid) between the color developer and the blix in order to do a rapid stop of the development and to avoid contaminating the blix with developer. Has anyone ever done this?
Do you (or anybody) know who makes easily-available kits with separate fix and bleach? I saw several references to this, but all of the kits I've seen use a blix.
Actually, the Cinestill kit is one of the lower-priced 1L/1Qt kits I've seen out there.
The instructions for a few of the kits I looked at had instructions for developing at various temperatures. Apparently quite a few are doing it at lower temps than 100+F.
One remark on "another network" was that using a squeegee results in threads on the forum asking what went wrong.
There were a few references to a "final wash" and from what I gather, they want you to use the stabilizer as the last solution in the process. I assume the stabilizer has some kind of a wetting agent (glycerine?) in it.
Has anyone ever done an additional wash after the stabilizer?
One recommendation was to use a salad spinner as a centrifuge to get the water (stabilizer) droplets off.
Anyway, thanks again. I'll probably start collecting the items I need this weekend and when the first kit gets here, give it a shot. I'll let everyone know how it goes.
Yes, and this part I already have set up and running just fine (knock on wood). I don't find it difficult at all. I'll often just get a DO and then scan them, batch mode, 6 at a time, and re-scan those I want for a high quality print.
For now I'll just try keeping the temperature close to constant in a kitty litter pan.. We have an "island" sink with an extension spigot so I can add hot/cold as needed.
I do know where there's an unused Jobo machine locally, which I could probably get for a song and a dance if I decide to really get into this, but that's far down the road.
One take-away I'm definitely hearing is keeping O2 out of stored chemical bottles. That Bloxygen is interesting, first I've ever heard of it, and I can see how it works. I know that Argon is inert and it should be more dense than O2, so it should be easy to use it to keep O2 (and N2 and H2O vapor) out of bottles. For now I'm probably gonna just squeeze the air out.
The number one take-away on this, both here and on "another network", seems to be attention to detail WRT mixing, measuring, timing, and temperature. I get it!
I saw one thread which recommended using a stop bath (diluted white vinegar or lab grade acetic acid) between the color developer and the blix in order to do a rapid stop of the development and to avoid contaminating the blix with developer. Has anyone ever done this?
Do you (or anybody) know who makes easily-available kits with separate fix and bleach? I saw several references to this, but all of the kits I've seen use a blix.
Actually, the Cinestill kit is one of the lower-priced 1L/1Qt kits I've seen out there.
The instructions for a few of the kits I looked at had instructions for developing at various temperatures. Apparently quite a few are doing it at lower temps than 100+F.
One remark on "another network" was that using a squeegee results in threads on the forum asking what went wrong.
There were a few references to a "final wash" and from what I gather, they want you to use the stabilizer as the last solution in the process. I assume the stabilizer has some kind of a wetting agent (glycerine?) in it.
Has anyone ever done an additional wash after the stabilizer?
One recommendation was to use a salad spinner as a centrifuge to get the water (stabilizer) droplets off.
Anyway, thanks again. I'll probably start collecting the items I need this weekend and when the first kit gets here, give it a shot. I'll let everyone know how it goes.
shawn
Veteran
For temperature control I modified a tropical fish heater to go up to color temps. It is a 300 w heater so I just fill a large tub with hot water, put the bottles of chemicals in it and turn on the heater and wait about an hour and everything is where it should be. I use the unicolor kits.
One thing that is nice about color is it doesn't matter what you shoot. You process it all the same (c41) so you can have many different types of color film together without an issue.
One thing that is less nice about color is the Blix out gasses. If you rotary process your film expect leaks from your tanks and maybe even popping the lid off. Jobo tanks have an expansion top to try and deal with this and it is somewhat effective but not perfectly so.
As far as keeping oxygen out of your chemicals the compressible bottles work well. The other cheap option is to use a propane torch to fill the container with propane. It is heavier than air and will displace the oxygen.
Shawn
One thing that is nice about color is it doesn't matter what you shoot. You process it all the same (c41) so you can have many different types of color film together without an issue.
One thing that is less nice about color is the Blix out gasses. If you rotary process your film expect leaks from your tanks and maybe even popping the lid off. Jobo tanks have an expansion top to try and deal with this and it is somewhat effective but not perfectly so.
As far as keeping oxygen out of your chemicals the compressible bottles work well. The other cheap option is to use a propane torch to fill the container with propane. It is heavier than air and will displace the oxygen.
Shawn
Moto-Uno
Moto-Uno
2 additional points .You are going to regret not having many more film spools . Trying to
roll film on wet spools is a no go .
My experience is that I have to question any one who is able to keep the developing chemicals longer the a couple of weeks , at one month in a sealed dark container in the fridge my developer produced blank negatives ,( as was written in the instructions). So do all your developing at once. It's an all nighter . Borrow a cooler from someone also , it keeps the temp better regulated with the top down .
Good Luck , Peter
roll film on wet spools is a no go .
My experience is that I have to question any one who is able to keep the developing chemicals longer the a couple of weeks , at one month in a sealed dark container in the fridge my developer produced blank negatives ,( as was written in the instructions). So do all your developing at once. It's an all nighter . Borrow a cooler from someone also , it keeps the temp better regulated with the top down .
Good Luck , Peter
dmr
Registered Abuser
And I assume it's NBD to do a cross-process slide roll every now and then as well as the regular color films.
If I keep up with this, I'll probably get some of those accordion bottles. I think I've seen these locally.
As for propane??????!!!! This is the first I've heard of that one. It's been decades since I took Organic, but IIRC it's a fairly simple hydrocarbon and more dense than O2, so it should displace air easily.
However, I'm not familiar enough with the chemistry of developer/blix to be certain that they will not react in some way with propane.
Besides, I don't want anything going Wooooommmmfff! in the process, let alone BOOM! That argon stuff sounds to me to be a bit safer in many respects.
brbo
Well-known
Buy it today if you can get one cheap.
One take-away I'm definitely hearing is keeping O2 out of stored chemical bottles. That Bloxygen is interesting, first I've ever heard of it, and I can see how it works. I know that Argon is inert and it should be more dense than O2, so it should be easy to use it to keep O2 (and N2 and H2O vapor) out of bottles. For now I'm probably gonna just squeeze the air out.
I'd only bother with Protectan/Bloxygen for the concentrates in a large 5L kits. For working solutions just use 1L Coca-Cola bottles and squeeze out the air.
I wouldn't use stop bath. It's not a part of standard C-41 development. Bleach will immediately stop the developer and it can absorb the remaining developer with no problem.
I'm from Europe and there are Fuji X-Press C-41 and Compard Digibase C-41 available with all the standard (separate Bleach and Fix) C-41 steps.
I've tested a few C-41 kits with the same negative at different temperatures/times. Yes, you can do it. But it won't be the same as at 100F no matter what you do.
If you want to wash out the stabilizer, don't bother with stabilizer at all
I wouldn't. But I've heard of so many ways that people use for getting their negatives flat and without residues that ended with no improvement or even far worst outcome for me that all I can say is "whatever works for you"...
I'll bet you anything you have that I can develop a good negative (definitely not blank) with a developer that's 6 months old (stored at room temperature in a "coke" bottle). I've done it so many times now with a number of different C-41, E-6, ECN-2, BW reversal, BW... kits that I'm absolutely certain that if you don't contaminate the developer it'll EASILY last you a month.
Moto-Uno
Moto-Uno
^ My experience has been with the "Unicolor" kits and as I mentioned after less than a month the last roll of Fuji 160 was blank . And I'd be more interested in seeing examples of using old developer pictures . When I last used this kit I'd also developed 12 rolls of C-41 and was pleased with the results . Cheers Peter
brbo
Well-known
The last developed roll of (underexposed) Vision3 500T, 6 months old developer, probably developed at least 25 rolls in it (more than half of them were iso500 films):
Moto-Uno
Moto-Uno
^ That's good to see and thanks for the reply . What kits might you have been using ? I didn't cross contaminate any of my developer and then stored them in dark tightly sealed glass bottles in a seldom used (and cold ) fridge , returned every thing to 102 degrees and went through the process and as mentioned blank frames . So I'm kinda shy about trying it again , but both yourself and KoFe seem to have good success . Thanks again, Peter
brbo
Well-known
I tried virtually anything that is available in Europe. FujiHunt, Compard, Tetenal, Rollei. I now mainly use FujiHunt. For ECN-2 I got a few packages of developer in powder form eBay (looks to be a standard published ECN-2 formula).
dmr
Registered Abuser
Here's the story and it may be interesting.
I'm going over there to take a look at the thing on Tuesday. The way she was talking last night (this was after a few adult beverages) was sounding like one of these "If you can use it you can have it" things, but I do want to give them a somewhat fair price if it's something I can use. A few of the snippets of the conversation were:
"It's at least 10 years old."
"He hasn't touched it since he went away to law school in 2011."
"It's black and it's taking up space."
"It has a big lever on it."
"I know it's a Jobo because that's what he called it."
For the first couple of attempts I think I will do it EXACTLY as the instructions say, making up full-strength solutions, watching the temperature and times very closely, etc. Yeah, I'll probably use soda bottles and just squeeze air out.
Ok, I won't then.
If you want to wash out the stabilizer, don't bother with stabilizer at all
Yes, I do "get it" WRT the stabilizer and not to rinse/wash after.
I think one of the keys will be attention to detail, as in not getting any amount of anything that will spoil the developer into it. I plan on pouring out the developer into a clean graduate, pour in the blix, and then bottle up the developer like immediately.