taking TMAX 3200 to see Buddy Guy

[MISH]

I am going to a Buddy Guy concert at his club in Chicago this weekend 😀😀
I would like to shoot the concert with TMAX 3200 in my M3 with 50mm and 90mm lenses and i am trying to decide what the appropriate exposure would be for this kind of lighting. I was thinking about three stops below sunny 16
(i usually rate this film at 800) What has been you experience in similar situations?

 

[David Murphy]

Some stage lights are pretty bright. I shot some pics of Chuck Berry a few years ago with a Pentax SLR using ISO 400 and it was almost doable. As I recall, I really needed something like ISO 1600 to use comfortably fast shutter speeds with the short telephoto zoom I was mostly using. Getting close enough to use a normal fast lens is the best approach - not always easy with a star like Buddy Guy even in a club. I'd consider shooting a test roll first if I was using an M3. Please post some results here -- I love Buddy Guy!

 

[Matthew Runkel]

If I'm thinking about this correctly, sunny 16 for 800 ISO would be f/16 and 1/1000, and three stops below would be f/16 and 1/125 or f/5.6 and 1/1000.

My experience suggests that you will need to expose a good deal more than this. When shooting in music clubs I typically use TMAX 3200 rated at 1600 and I take a reading of the performer's face with a 1-degree spot meter, exposing one stop more than that for white skin, and maybe a stop less or no adjustment for black skin. This usually gets me to somewhere around 1/30 or 1/60 at f/2. If I get to 1/125 and f/2 I feel very fortunate. Maybe your venue will be brighter than I'm used to.

If you can borrow a spot meter then you will not need to guess. Highly recommended. Good luck!

 

[andredossantos]

Giving an estimate would be hard because nobody can be absolutely sure what the conditions will be like until the show actually starts.

That being said, 3 stops below Sunny 16 Is not going to cut it. My best guess would be based on the last time I did some shots at a dark smallish venue. I estimated and shot around 1/60 and 1/125 (when the lights were brighter) and f/1.2 using Fuji Pro 800z rated at 800 iso. So that would be something like 8 or 9 stops under sunny 16.

My shots came out OK but this is going to be a big YMMV.

 

[calebk]

It largely depends on the consistency and nature of the lights at his club. Have you been there before or shot there before?

If and when I shoot live performances at clubs or nightspots on digital ( I hear some cries of sacrilege :/ ), my ISO is often pushed to 3200, and I'm getting about 1/125-1/250 if the stage is lit by par cans or similar constant light sources.

If you're lucky, the club will have constant illumination on the performer, and then on top of that, maybe coloured lights that come in as and when. The tricky part is when these coloured lights do come in, you're going to experience a lot of exposure fluctuation.

 

[calebk]

Be sure and save a roll for the encore. In years past B.G. put on a serious show building to the encore. I'm not familiar with the venue, but for encores it isn't uncommon for people to crowd the stage, take that as an opportunity for close-ups and don't forget to look around for shots of others in the crowd.
Very, very cooooool!

Yeah, sometimes audience shots can be as intense, if not more, than performer shots.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

I am going to a Buddy Guy concert at his club in Chicago this weekend 😀😀
I would like to shoot the concert with TMAX 3200 in my M3 with 50mm and 90mm lenses and i am trying to decide what the appropriate exposure would be for this kind of lighting. I was thinking about three stops below sunny 16
(i usually rate this film at 800) What has been you experience in similar situations?

I think this is the real problem... There isn't a kind of lighting... There are lots of them... Concerts are (to me) the hardest light metering situations, and because of the fast film / high contrast, being up or down from correct exposure leads to horrible negatives EASILY...

If lights change during a song (and sometimes they change constantly), or if Buddy Guy (or the band members) come out of a light beam, proper exposure can change drastically (several f-stops!), and consider you can also have ambient darkness sometimes during light beams, but closer to light beams ambient light some other times...

So, real solutions:

1. Metering your subject's face just before shooting is the way to go. A spot meter is as important as your camera, and should be used ALL the time.

2. You should know very well the meter you'll use... With my sekonic I meter TMZ incident at 3200 for a long development that gives me high contrast negatives where whites and near white subjects are pure white on film, and middle grays are as open on film as they can be... It's 14 minutes on TMaxDev 1+4 at 24º. This is longer than recommended, but as I tell you, I prefer to burn highlights to be sure I get the best possible speed for the medium values. Of course incident readings won't be the (normal) case, then: when I SPOT meter skin at 3200, I open a stop for common white skin... For example if incident reading is 1/60 f/2.8, I know a usual skin spot reading can be 1/125 f/2.8, and for proper exposure (white skin close to zone VI) I must open one f-stop... For the darker Buddy's skin I wouldn't open that f-stop...

3. You should shoot a TMZ roll in similar conditions previously, elsewhere, shooting dark skinned subjects spot metered under changing light conditions, and see if the development is OK for your gear... You can nail it at the first try!

4. You'll need a fast long lens too, for sure... Even if you're in the first row or in the nearest table... A 90 f/2 or similar. I'd have it on a second body, both for comfortable shooting and for security in body failure case.

5. Shoot a lot: careful composition isn't usual (space) in those situations, and face and body language change every second... 10 rolls wouldn't be excessive...

Good luck and enjoy!

Cheers,

Juan

 

[SilverFarm]

Buddy Guy at the Burton Cummings Theater, Winnipeg, April 2010

Buddy Guy at the Burton Cummings Theater, Winnipeg, April 2010

Saw Buddy Guy and Jonny Lang last spring.
Row 2, magical nite of great performers livin' what they love.

here are a few snaps...

Olympus XA
Tmax 400
Rodinal 1+50 for 13 min

enjoy the show

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Just in case you use a metered body too:

If an in camera meter is used (not M3...) at 3200, it's usual that most cameras evaluating the whole scene's reflected light give +1 exposure compared to an incident reading at the same ISO... So in that case 14 minutes with +1 would give too dense negatives... For 3200 in camera metering I develop for 11 minutes.

Cheers,

Juan

 

[kknox]

OK all you guys that like Buddy Guy & Jonny Lang. Get the Crossroads Guitar Festival 2010. Great DVD, 4.5 hours of great Blues. No black & white photos, but you can listen while you soup your film.

 

[Tim Gray]

Depends on the lighting. If it's good, and you have reasonably fast lenses, you can get by with ISO 400. If it's crap, you could be in big trouble. I've been in venues where I was screwed - ISO 3200 or 6400, f/1.4, and exposures of 1/15 to 1/30, which just doesn't cut it for a rock show. Absolutely NO lighting.

I'm guessing it will be decent lighting though. Good luck!

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Tim is so very right. Lots of artists prefer to get rid of horrible internet amateur shooting so they play under real low light... Sometimes, as Tim said, you get there just to find ambient light is just nothing for film (just enough for vision) and that under direct colored beams, at 3200 you must shoot at 1/8 f1.4, and that means blur from camera shake + subject movement + near impossible focusing + one inch DOF...

That's where evil evil (digiSLRs) at ultrahigh ISOs with AE and AF give pros a soul-taking hand... 🙂

Anyway if a beautiful image has a bit of movement, it can be in HUGE benefit of the image sometimes, and then its visual value is far above those technical considerations, and you could even find yourself getting an image for a future Buddy's album sleeve...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[surfer dude]

I've been to his Legends club the ONCE I was in Chicago for just 16 hours - unfortunately he wasn't playing but a guy named Billy Branch and his band put on a SENSATIONAL set. The lighting wasn't too bad and if you get there early it's possible to get a table right at the front. 3200 should be sweet.

I've seen Buddy twice in Melbourne Australia - once with Keb Mo' and again with Taj Mahal. He is undoubtedly the MAN!

Here is a photo from my iPhone:

 

[MISH]

thanks for all your input, looks like I was heading to some serious underexposure...
following your advice I think I will take two bodies, M3 with 50f2 and contax IIA with 85f2 and will also try to line up a spot meter. this is going to be a great show

 

[kevin m]

Wow, who knew that film AND Buddy Guy were both still alive! 😀

 

[MCTuomey]

like others have said, the answer depends on the venue, so it can vary widely. the places i shoot are small and relatively dim. my exposures with f1.4-f2 apertures and iso 800-1600 can run from 1/45 to 1/1000. over 1/250 and i'll stop down for dof especially if i'm close and/or wanting to pull in bandmates.

my 2 cents