mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
I don't at all think Dave is saying that digital is "wrong". My take on his purpose is teaching young people about taking photos, well, on purpose - with deliberate framing, composition etc.. Not just random digi-snaps (which happen even more frequently these days than the random insta-snaps from the days of 126 and 110 film cartridges and little flash cubes - which I'm well old enough to remember).
...Mike
SimonSawSunlight
Simon Fabel
is this about teaching peple how to use a camera to take a photo? or about photography as a social and cultural-historical medium and object of philosophical, semiotic and artistic discussion?
dave lackey
Veteran
A bit of all the above. Hence, the personal touch rather than the academic approach.
mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
Do we all have to read "Regarding the Pain of Others" before we take an effing photo?
I mean, if you want to, and all, I'd recommend it - even more than "On Photography". But neither is necessary to take photographs.
...Mike
Yes, no doubt. I am offering something different and that is the appeal. It is like offering someone an opportunity to learn to drive in my MGTD rather than the Camry.
True, sounds like fun. I'm sure they will enjoy it.
SimonSawSunlight
Simon Fabel
did I say that?
You have to learn the former before working on the latter no (well, that is if your goal is to make photos and not just learn about them)?
SimonSawSunlight
Simon Fabel
maybe, maybe not. sontag, barthes and benjamin (because we like our standard examples, don't we) weren't photographers for all I know. but then again, I wouldn't force anyone to read them.
yes, obviously. but you can reflect what you're producing and how you're doing it whatever the level of your technical expertise. that's why, to me, i.e. a darkroom class (which is not what Dave wants if I understand correctly) is not a photography class.
mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
In the case of the MG, don't you have to learn how to repair it before you can drive it? :angel:It is like offering someone an opportunity to learn to drive in my MGTD rather than the Camry.
...Mike
Samouraï
Well-known
I learned to shoot 16mm with Plus-X & Tri-X reversal. Very unforgiving. Only a few stops of latitude. Definitely helped me in the long run.
You split my reply into two when it only worked as one answer.
I acknowledged the non-photographer academics through my (...). I feel the darkroom is very much a part of photography. Photography has technical aspects. The conceptual is important to you and I, but may not be for someone else. Photography is many things... not just "a social and cultural-historical medium and object of philosophical, semiotic and artistic discussion." For some people is purely about fluff and aesthetics. It is still photography though.
Vickko
Veteran
The young know everything, what can we teach them?
SimonSawSunlight
Simon Fabel
You split my reply into two when it only worked as one answer.
I feel the darkroom is very much a part of photography. Photography has technical aspects. The conceptual is important to you and I, but may not be for someone else. Photography is many things... not just "a social and cultural-historical medium and object of philosophical, semiotic and artistic discussion." For some people is purely about aesthetics. It is still photography though.
yes. that is exactly why I was asking. aesthetics are highly philosophical though.
of course, the technical aspect (including dark room work) is an essential part of photography, it is a medium of modern technology after all. but if I (ymmv) was attending a class about cars I wouldn't want to be stuck dealing with chemistry the entire time, just because the fuel is essential for it to run (bit of a sloppy metaphor but you see where I'm going). this is not a wrong/right problem, but a matter of balance, I suppose. for me at least.
why the "not just"? I never said anything about exclusively teaching people about complex media and culture theory (for example) or forcing them to be interested in sontag (in fact, I think I prefer a class where people do not constantly quote or refer to that woman).
I was actually just asking what his plan for this seminar was, without any big implications.
mwooten
light user
Great idea Dave. Good to teach the relationships between shutter speed — aperture — film speed by using mechanical cameras and slide film. I have met several younger folks who interested in the how/why of photography.
Although at first I thought you should have them use B/W film, but I can see the advantages of using slides. First, you will have a faster turnaround. Secondly, you take out the variable of development/developer. Thirdly, Sharing: Doing crits with a slide projector will be great. Projected slides are still magic to me. If you went with B/W then scanning and its issues would be brought into the equation.
—michael
Although at first I thought you should have them use B/W film, but I can see the advantages of using slides. First, you will have a faster turnaround. Secondly, you take out the variable of development/developer. Thirdly, Sharing: Doing crits with a slide projector will be great. Projected slides are still magic to me. If you went with B/W then scanning and its issues would be brought into the equation.
—michael
SimonSawSunlight
Simon Fabel
I agree.
mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
The young knows everything within their sphere of influence.
The beauty of teaching photography is that it is a very visual (sometimes visceral) way to introduce young people to other spheres that they have never seen yet.
Dave, thanks for this thread by the way.
Teaching (not just the young) about photography has been in the forefront of my thinking since last year.
In fact, I have created an outline for a small group workshop that looks at photography as a personal pursuit that has the potential to enrich peoples lives through what I mentioned above: Broadened horizon across boundaries (geographical, time, social, and yes, sometimes spiritual).
The workshop is broken down into these topics:
1. Why Photography
This is about setting expectations, potential, and correlating those with the realities of life. Basically in this first session, I'll introduce people to the various sides of photography that can touch our lives in ways we never thought about before.
2. Choices
Photography is about choices, some binary, some others has more; some technical, some aesthetics, some moral, some subjective, or are they all subjective? By approaching photography from this angle, I try to introduce participants to effective decision making that will guide them as they grow. There will be some talk about technicality in this session, but it is the opposite of my intention to make this workshop yet another Aperture/Shutter-speed/ISO/Color-Theory mumbo-jumbo. Why? because in this day and age, you don't need to attend a workshop if you just want to know those.
3. Interactions
Defining interactions as both internal (between our mind, eyes, and camera) as well as external (between scene, subject, light). In this session, I'm going deeper into how an image is formed, first in our mind, based on what we have observed before, or based on our impressions of a memory. How to translate those into the subject and scene in front of us. I'll introduce participants to the theory of synthesizing a theme or message as a path to grow photographically. I am going to show videos of the masters to see how their mind works.
4. Outcome
In this last session, it's all about the outcome. What is photography without the final goal of publishing or exhibiting your photographs in some ways. From editing, post-processing, to making your own photobooks, to joining/organizing projects such as the excellent ones we have right here on RFF, to exhibiting in a gallery, should opportunity knocks. What I wanted to impart to the participants here is the sense of respect towards your own work. A healthy respect will go a long way towards motivating us to put the necessary effort so our photographs are publicly displayable *and* conveys the message that we envisioned. This session is also about how to reap the reward from your pursuit of photography.
My thinking is breaking the workshop into four sessions, it would make it easier for people to arrange their schedule around it. I'm envisioning 8 people per workshop, so the amount of interaction and overcoming shyness can be maximized.
Of course sprinkled in the workshop various gear-talks, favorite this and that, and lots of viewing photographs, and exercises to drive the topics in.
What do you guys think?
dave lackey
Veteran
Wow, just popped in and have to leave for a couple more hours. Can't even catch up with reading the other responses yet. But, this is very interesting. I will read it first this evening!!