Tell Me About Screw Mount Leicas

[ktmrider]

So, I have only handled a screw mount Leica once, for about ten minutes at Red Dot Camera in London. So, as an owner of just about every film M made at one time or another tell me about the attraction of Leicas earlier than an M3.

I know they are small but anything else? I am down to one M film camera (sold Leica R6.2 and M2 recently) although I have a new MP240 for the M mount lenses.

 

[brennanphotoguy]

People either love them or hate them. The user experience is unique and they look really nice but they are really fiddly to use. I like my IIIg but it's definitely a backup and I prefer any film M camera to any LTM camera but it's still fun to use when speed isn't necessary.

 

[David Hughes]

As I see it, it's part of our history. You have to handle early cameras to appreciate them but only after using the previous ones.

Buy a 1920's camera that takes 6x9 plates and only has a f/6.3 lens and you'll soon apreciate the early Leicas. Then move on to a model II and see what a giant step forward that was.

I shall be drummed out of RFF for saying it but they are not the easiest to use but they are great fun. And anything that makes people stop and think about photography is a good thing; plus you get to meet a lot of people...

Regards, David

 

[ktmrider]

So, would the Nicca II currently in the classifieds be a good clone?

 

[Phil_F_NM]

So, would the Nicca II currently in the classifieds be a good clone?

Absolutely. Buy it so I stop obsessing about getting another camera that I don't need nor can't afford. 😎

Phil Forrest

 

[Robert Lai]

Nicca looks good. The lens is a very good Zeiss Sonnar copy by Nikon. I have a Leotax like it. You will have to test out the flash synch ports. They are most likely timed for flash bulbs. On my Leotax, they were both for flash bulbs - one seemed to be an S synch, and the other was M synch. Don Goldberg said that it's possible on the Leotax to convert one of them to X synch for electronic flash. So, now it's in his queue, where it's been for 1 year.

BTW - flash synch on these babies is at a blazing 1/20 or 1/25 shutter speed.

Other caveats with these Barnack clones:

The viewfinder and rangefinder are in separate eyepieces. So, focus first, then compose. The viewfinder only shows the view of a 50mm lens. You need separate viewfinders for other focal lengths.

The rangefinder works by superimposition. You can't use the edge of the RF as a split image finder, as you can with an M Leica (well, not as easily). The entire viewing experience is likely to be dim and squinty, compared to your M camera.

The shutter speed dial spins around as the first curtain runs. Don't touch it while it's spinning, or you will ruin your exposure.
Also, you can only set the shutter speed AFTER you've wound the film. Don't try to change the shutter speed before winding.

If you want to perform a double exposure, you can take the shutter dial, and wind it backwards until it latches. The film won't have advanced, but the shutter will be recocked.

Bottom loading without a back flap. This is different from your Leica M. The back door is for sissies anyway. Real Leicas don't need back doors 😀.

Overall, the Barnacks require a more considered approach to photography. There are so many more buttons / dials and settings that you need to consider before you take the shot. But they are quaint looking, and attention getting. People find them fascinating, not intimidating.

 

[presspass]

There's something about shooting with an ltm camera but I can't describe it. They make the photographer pay closer attention to the process, but that doesn't mean they're slow or not suitable for fast-moving events. Last month I shot a woods fire with a IIIa and a 35 f 3.5 pre-war Elmar and it worked just fine. The pre-war cameras almost require an auxiliary viewfinder, especially if you wear glasses. Do I use mine every week? No, but I can't think of a subject or topic that can be shot with an M and not with an ltm.

 

[css9450]

Absolutely. Buy it so I stop obsessing about getting another camera that I don't need nor can't afford. 😎

LOL I was just looking at those pics too... I'd buy it myself if I didn't already have a nearly-identical Tower version of the same camera, with a like-new Nikkor 2.0.

Another option worth mentioning are the early Canons.... They have a nice viewfinder magnifier and, in my opinion, nicer and more-durable chrome.

 

[MaxElmar]

"The entire viewing experience is likely to be dim and squinty, compared to your M camera."

Squinty maybe, but dim? Just have the thing cleaned - mine (both RF and VF) are as bright as any camera I have looked through, including a new M7.

You know what's squinty? Trying to focus precisely with a .72 rangefinder. LTM Leica rangefinders are magnified 1.5x - or TWICE the size. They got this right the first time (well, III and after). And you can focus the RF! What will they think of next?! Whatever time you saved with the combined RF/VF evaporates trying to focus a fast 50mm on a pupil behind an eyeglass. Don't get me started on the .58 finder ....

Yes, the built-in 50mm finder is squinty (but it is not dim). Get a SBOOI for your 50mm and you get a magnificent 1:1 view - even with most glasses. Open both eyes for BINOCULAR vision, what will they think of next?

These experiences are based on being a presbyopic glasses wearer - 20/20 youngsters will have a different experience...

Not saying the M cameras are inferior. But they are a compromise in the name of convenience and maybe, under optimal circumstances, some small advantage in speed of operation.

(I should probably put on some flame retardant clothing after that - but I stand by my comments.)

 

[Larry Cloetta]

"The entire viewing experience is likely to be dim and squinty, compared to your M camera."

Squinty maybe, but dim? Just have the thing cleaned - mine (both RF and VF) are as bright as any camera I have looked through, including a new M7.

You know what's squinty? Trying to focus precisely with a .72 rangefinder. LTM Leica rangefinders are magnified 1.5x - or TWICE the size. They got this right the first time (well, III and after). And you can focus the RF! What will they think of next?! Whatever time you saved with the combined RF/VF evaporates trying to focus a fast 50mm on a pupil behind an eyeglass. Don't get me started on the .58 finder ....

Yes, the built-in 50mm finder is squinty (but it is not dim). Get a SBOOI for your 50mm and you get a magnificent 1:1 view - even with most glasses. Open both eyes for BINOCULAR vision, what will they think of next?

These experiences are based on being a presbyopic glasses wearer - 20/20 youngsters will have a different experience...

Not saying the M cameras are inferior. But they are a compromise in the name of convenience and maybe, under optimal circumstances, some small advantage in speed of operation.

(I should probably put on some flame retardant clothing after that - but I stand by my comments.)

I tend to agree wholeheartedly with all of this, but it seems a minority opinion. It is the amount of rangefinder magnification that I find so helpful in obtaining precise focus (relative to M bodies) that people seem to ignore when they talk about Barnacks. This was one reason why when introduced, the M3 “wasn’t for everybody” and Leica kept building Barnacks, even introducing newer models (iiig). Or maybe that was because, as I am sure some will argue (they always do) it was just because the terminally unhip “were afraid of change”.
I love mine (iiia, iiib, iiig). I don’t have any Leica ltm clones, but even the Leicas are dirt cheap (excepting the iiig).

 

[Larry Cloetta]

I have posted this before, but this was taken with a iiig (without using an external viewfinder) and the Summicron 50 ltm. So, really, how hard can they be to use? It’s not like you are going to be reduced to taking pictures of chairs or other things that won’t hold still if you use a Barnack.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

To me LTM are the cameras HCB started with and many first soviet photogs were using.
So, it is significant, if not most important part of photo history and photography as an art for me.
They are less expensive in paid CLA, more quirky to load and waste extra two frames. They are best with external VF to use. Even 50mm, once I looked into SBOOI, I realized what 1:1 is, M3 VF isn't. I keep it on Zorki 🙂.

 

[pixelated]

I have the Tower-branded version of that camera, along with the Nikkor 50 f/2. Having never used a Barnack Leica I can't really compare, but it's a pleasant enough camera to use, though I like my Canon P better.
But, that Nikkor lens is lovely and makes the package worthwhile itself (IMHO). Your M would not be shamed wearing that lens with an adaptor.

 

[shawn]

The shutter speed dial spins around as the first curtain runs. Don't touch it while it's spinning, or you will ruin your exposure.
Also, you can only set the shutter speed AFTER you've wound the film. Don't try to change the shutter speed before winding.

Bottom loading without a back flap. This is different from your Leica M. The back door is for sissies anyway. Real Leicas don't need back doors 😀.

Overall, the Barnacks require a more considered approach to photography. There are so many more buttons / dials and settings that you need to consider before you take the shot. But they are quaint looking, and attention getting. People find them fascinating, not intimidating.

Some Niccas can have their shutter speed set before winding. They are marked for both pre and post winding shutter speed setting. The 5l / Tower 45/46 have this. Those also have back door flaps to aid in film loading and they are lever wind too.

A couple of the Leotax clones have somewhat bigger finders (with 50mm frame lines) but they aren't as big as the IIIGs finder and they don't adjust for parallax.

Shawn

 

[splitimageview]

(I should probably put on some flame retardant clothing after that - but I stand by my comments.)

Not to worry! This is *exactly* the reason I'd rather shoot a Barnack...the 1.5x magnified RF, and one can add an SBOOI if one wants a life-size, both-eyes-open view with a 50. Alternatively if a small camera is more important for the situation, then skip the SBOOI and put on a collapsible Elmar.

I've owned all varieties of M with various viewfinder magnifications (including the Zeiss Ikon, the CLE, and the Hexar RF) and if I'm shooting a meterless camera I'd much rather shoot a Barnack.

 

[shawn]

So, I have only handled a screw mount Leica once, for about ten minutes at Red Dot Camera in London. So, as an owner of just about every film M made at one time or another tell me about the attraction of Leica's earlier then an M3.

I know they are small but anything else? I am down to one M film camera (sold Leica R6.2 and M2 recently) although I have a new MP240 for the M mount lenses.

Barnack's and the clones are quirky. You will either find them very fun to shoot with or maddeningly frustrating. I have a Leotax TV2, Tower 45 and Leica IIIg.

I love the dual finders but not everyone does. The magnification makes focusing very quick and if you are using a lens with a tab it becomes almost second nature to set the focus almost in place by scale focusing and using the rangefinder just to fine tune it when needed. A SBOOI on top of the camera gives an incredible framing finder with both eyes open.

Loading the Leotax and Leica takes a little time but isn't a big deal if the film leaders are trimmed. I 3d printed a ABLON film trimming guide and it works great. The Tower has a back door like the M3 so it loads a little easier still.

Depending upon the lenses used aperture can be quirky on these too as it may be at the front of the lens or rotate with the lens while focusing. Some lenses have aperture details on both sides of the lens so you can see it no matter where the lens is focused. The Elmar 2.8 on my IIIg has that as does my Konishiroku Hexar 50mm f3.5.

Quiet very tactile cameras to use.

Shawn

 

[shawn]

I have posted this before, but this was taken with a iiig (without using an external viewfinder) and the Summicron 50 ASPH ltm. So, really, how hard can they be to use? It’s not like you are going to be reduced to taking pictures of chairs or other things that won’t hold still if you use a Barnack.

Great shot. For shots like this I find them very easy to use. Set exposure and prefocus and then just track until they are where you want them.

This is from my first roll in the IIIg.

Shawn

 

[mpaniagua]

As I see it, it's part of our history. You have to handle early cameras to appreciate them but only after using the previous ones.

Buy a 1920's camera that takes 6x9 plates and only has a f/6.3 lens and you'll soon apreciate the early Leicas. Then move on to a model II and see what a giant step forward that was.

I shall be drummed out of RFF for saying it but they are not the easiest to use but they are great fun. And anything that makes people stop and think about photography is a good thing; plus you get to meet a lot of people...

Regards, David

Pretty good description David.

I would say its like a large format camera, but easier to use and lighter 🙂

Otherwise, mostly the same.

Marcelo

 

[johannielscom]

The Leica II has a 100% rangefinder window.

That's a big thing because you can focus with both eyes open and not look anything like this at all:

AFAIK the Leica II is the only camera that had a 100% rangefinder magnification. All models after it had 150%, which actually was 'progress in the wrong direction' since it did require you to squeeze one eye shut.

And they are as 'fiddly' to use as several other 1,000s of cameras from the same and later eras so I don't consider that to be something specific to Barnack Leicas. Same goes for a wide array of cameras, from Contaxes, Kodak Retinas, Olympus Pens and XA series to nearly the whole Fujifilm, Panasonic and Sony mirrorless line. Small buttons and dials goes for small cameras in general.

 

[lynnb]

I've been shooting my IIIc and IIIf full time a few years now. I like the history, the tactile feel, the small size of bodies and lenses, inconspicuous presence, quiet shutter sound, speed of operation (instantaneous once you pre-set exposure and learn where to position the focus tab by feel), and friendly conversations if people notice them - which they often don't. Easy to accurately focus wide open with the magnified RF. Easy to frame with an external VF. Film loading is slow but that's not a deal breaker for me - I use a business card to avoid trimming the leader.

I do a lot of street photography and for that I find a Barnack ideal.

Nearly forgot to mention, I find using a Barnack fun; and they're beautiful machines.

last days of summer #465 by lynnb's snaps, on Flickr
IIIc CV35/2.5 LTM