Tell me something about pushing/pulling

[Griffin]

Hi there. So I have a couple of questions about pulling/pushing film, especially color film which I don't develop myself.

I heard a while ago on "Inside Analog Photo Radio", that wonderful podcast that is no more, that Kodak Portra has one of the greatest latitutes of all color negative film. He said you could rate Portra 400 at 1600 easily. Now, if I were to do that, how do I go about letting my photolab do the correct pushing? Do they develop the 400 as if it were a 1600? Or is it the other way around? Should they develop it as a 100?

I presume I should rate the entire roll the same way in order to get the developing done correctly?

Now, what would be the advantage of pushing the 400 film to 1600. Is it just the quicker shutter speeds at low light, or is there an image benefit?

Thanks in advance,

Griffin

 

[nimcod]

You will want to ask for a "push2" or "push 2 stops" depending on your local lab lingo. this will develop it at 1600.

yep roll all at the same iso, and basically yes it allows for shutter speed increase and the cost of dynamic range/shadow detail/grain/colour consistency. (usually greenish tinge if i recall kodak)

ive seen some shots which look great and some god awful with portra, it seems quite dependant on the white balance of the lights its shot under from what i can tell.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

All C-41 films, regardless of speed or manufacturer, use the exact same normal developing time. Pushing means increasing that time. The times for pushing are standardized too, so just tell them you want a 2 stop push to get 1600. Be aware that few labs can or will do this. The minilabs at most one-hour labs cannot push because the operator cannot change the developing time they give. This is a service normally offered at pro labs, and they charge quite a bit extra for it. Expect the price to develop the film (not the price of the prints) to double.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Latitude and pushing are different things.

Latitude refers to the film's tolerance for over- and under-exposure when processed normally.

Pushing refers to over-development to get extra speed (at the cost of higher contrast). 'Pulling' refers to under-development to reduce contrast, though quite honestly, there's really no reason for pulling colour neg film.

Films with good latitude often (but not always) push and pull better.

Cheers,

R.

 

[nimcod]

Chris: however if you find a lovely minilab op who will take the time, you can emergency stop the drive while film is in the dev, then get a stopwatch and restart it after needed time, albeit not as precise as dip/dunk pro lab, as you tend to get a 10 second lag from start to end of film, as it passes through the tank however personally ive found it works quite well.

 

[haempe]

... you can emergency stop the drive while film is in the dev, then get a stopwatch and restart it after needed time, albeit not as precise as dip/dunk pro lab, as you tend to get a 10 second lag from start to end of film, as it passes through the tank however personally ive found it works quite well.

Well, this is the extremest abuse of a minilab I have ever heard of. 😱 😉
And the only chance that this will work is a minilab with tanks large enough to take the complete film...
I have worked with Fuji minilabs, a 36exp roll is in two or three baths at the same time... so this can't work in this case.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Well, this is the extremest abuse of a minilab I have ever heard of. 😱 😉
And the only chance that this will work is a minilab with tanks large enough to take the complete film...
I have worked with Fuji minilabs, a 36exp roll is in two or three baths at the same time... so this can't work in this case.

I've also worked with Fuji machines and also remember that. Another thing is, minilabs have pumps that constantly circulate the chemicals to provide agitation. Shut the machine down, no agitation. You may get uneven developing. This is one of those things in photography where there's always someone wanting to cut corners and claim it works 'just fine for me' when just doing it right is not hard.

 

[ScottAlexander]

If I am not mistaken, the barcode on the film canister is read by the machine in pro or mini-lab alike. All you would need to do is cut out a 1600 barcode with shears and tape it down on your 400. The canisters are garbage at most labs, they'll just give them to you.

If someone can confirm this.. a little DIY would save you $2-$4 processing a roll

 

[Freakscene]

If I am not mistaken, the barcode on the film canister is read by the machine in pro or mini-lab alike. All you would need to do is cut out a 1600 barcode with shears and tape it down on your 400. The canisters are garbage at most labs, they'll just give them to you.

If someone can confirm this.. a little DIY would save you $2-$4 processing a roll

I ran a pro lab C41 line for 2 years.

That definitely will not work because ISO1600 C41 film uses the same, standard processing time as any other C41 film. The machines only read the DX code to set the focus parameters (which are grain related) for printing in integrated develop/print machines.

You need a pro machine or some other way that you can properly manage the time to do a push. Using the emergency stop does work, but if you stop the transport and leave the pumps and heaters on, that's not the same agitation as those plus the film going along the transport mechanism.

Marty

 

[nimcod]

Number 1: tanks are deep enough on "some" models of fuji processors, defiantly on the FP363SC. as the dev tank is full length not a shallow tank.

Number 2: you are only stopping the drive not the agitation pump mechanism, this still runs with the drive stopped.

both i have personally run with top cover open on the 363 and visually checked that it works.

I mearly wanted to point out that it can be done and if you find a lab op who obviously knows what they are doing and willing to do it, obviously going to a full pro lab is the best option.

There is also no need to snidely write off a process that is possible, works fine and costs no more money and i do for the odd customer who are fully aware of the process. If you beleive a minilab can afford to invest in the equipment to "do it right" you must be living in a photo lab utopia.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

There is also no need to snidely write off a process that is possible, works fine and costs no more money and i do for the odd customer who are fully aware of the process. If you beleive a minilab can afford to invest in the equipment to "do it right" you must be living in a photo lab utopia.

That's why I said go to a pro lab, because it is unreasonable to expect minilabs to have the equipment or the knowledge to do it right. Fact is, it isn't possible and doesn't work. You have been LUCKY, that's all. Many minilab machines have two developer tanks, the film goes down into one, then back up, over the rollers into the other. This is because developing takes the longest of the chemicals and the tank can't be made deep enough to keep the film in it long enough. The film in the crossover rollers will definately not develop right if you stop the machine.

Like I said, doing it right is not hard, there's no reason to play games. Pro labs are for people with special needs, like pushing. Minilabs are for everyday snapshot stuff. You get what you pay for, in film developing as with most things.

 

[Fotohuis]

C41 = C41 for all CN iso films. The effect on a C41 push development is not so big. In fact it's an emmergency solution. If I had a situation with an iso 400 film and had to expose it on E.I. 800-1000 I would do it. But you will loosing always in quality.
The C41 developer time is extended from 3:15 minutes with an extra 0:30 minutes for a push +1F development. Still all done on the regular 100F/37,8C temperature.

If you have a CPE/CPA/CPP or an ATL Jobo processor it's very simple.

Fotohuis is also offering this C41 push possibility.

Best regards,

Robert