Testing Vintage Telephoto Lenses (Set-up)

[raid]

I have finally received all four lenses from Kiu, Roland, and Mark for the upcoming test. All lenses look great optically, and my own lenses also are optically clean. I have not seen any tests on vintage 85mm~105mm lenses in LTM. Needless to say that the newer multicoated lenses may be sharper and have more contrast,but the vintage lenses are reputed to have a "signature" of their own. I don't know if it is the charm of old lenses that make me love such lenses or is it the lack of free cash to buy the newer design lenses.

My initial plan is to compare the lenses in groups by max aperture.

Group 1:

1. Summicron 90mm/2 (first version)
2. Canon 85mm/1.9
3. Canon 85mm/1.8 (Mark)
4. Nikkor 85mm/2 (Roland)
5. ZK 85/f2 (1950 "Zonnar Krasnogorski") in Cyrillic "3K 85/f2". (Roland)



Group 2:

1. Elmarit 90mm/2.8 (old design)
2. Steinheil 85mm/2.8
3. Nikkor 105mm/2.5 (Kiu)

Group 3:

1. Elmar (chrome, coated) 90mm/4
2. Elmar (black, coated, different aperture clicks from chrome) 90mm/4

A test at max aperture within each group will be done, followed by a test at 4.0for all lenses. Please let me know if you have any specific wishes in the test. Maybe I can manage the task.

The test is planned for the upcoming weekend.

Raid

 

[raid]

Roland,
The second category has max aperture around 2.8, and that's why I placed the Nikkor there. I may do some testing between the two Nikkors at 2.5 for both lenses to have a fair test. Both lenses are reputed to be first-class in performance.

raid

 

[NIKON KIU]

I am looking forward to upcoming week-end🙂
Raid I got you PM, I'll let you know.
Cheers,
Kiu

 

[raid]

Was only thinking: at 3m distance, for example, the 85mm at f2 has a DOF of 15cm. The 105mm at f2.5 a DOF of 12cm. So for portraits they should be comparable, wide open.

Roland.

Roland,
It should not be a problem to follow up after the standard test of all lenses with a special limited test between these two lenses.

I am also curious about comparing the older Canon 85mm/1.9 (chrome) with the more compact (black) 85mm/1.8.


Raid

 

[raid]

I wonder if I should include 135mm lenses too.
I have the Hektor, the Canon, and the Nikkor.

Raid

 

[dexdog]

Raid, sounds like a great set-up for the test. I am especially seeing the comparison of results with the lenses wide open.

 

[raid]

Mark,
Wide open performance separates good lenses from excellent lenses. People pay a premium price to get lenses that perform well wide open. Your lens should do much better than my Canon lens wide open.

Raid

 

[John]

I will of course be interested in how all the lenses fare. I have a soft spot for the Canon 1.9 which I have been using lately. The results are still in the roll ...... but soon. 🙂

 

[raid]

John: I also love my Canon 85mm/1.9 lens. It looks super cool in chrome finish with its fancy lens hood and lens covers. The newer Canon 85mm/1.8 is much smaller and most likely it is sharper wide open. I am curious by how much it is sharper.

raid

 

[John]

Maybe the Canon 1.9 has pleasant bokeh comparable to Leica and Nikon? It should also be plenty sharp compared to many of the consumer zooms out there. 🙂

 

[raid]

I agree with you that the vintage lenses offer more than just adequate sharpness. They each have a signature for pleasant out of focus rendering.

Raid

 

[wlewisiii]

These will be very interesting to see, Raid. Thank you for taking it up again. And please do consider the 135's sometime as well as that is a favored FL for me.

William

 

[lmd91343]

Raid,

The test sounds great!

What is your protocol?

• resolution chart?
• color chart?
• brick wall?
• high contrast?
• low contrast?
• flare?
• 3d object?
• how much 3d space for bokeh check?
• tripod/cable release?
• film speed?
• time of day?
• same camera for all?
• focus by RF or tape measure?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks,
Lance

 

[wlewisiii]

Lance,

Do a search on his name and "lens test" and you'll find a couple of his previous forays into this messy little field. Suffice to say, his tests are aimed at day to day use rather than anything terribly objective. Still, I find his results seriously useful and his daughter is an excellent test subject, BTW 😉

So, Raid, when do we get the 35 & 28 & (gasp) even wider test? :angel:

(G, D, & R)

William

 

[payasam]

Raid, the focal lengths involved are widely used in portraiture, and many subjects and photographers actually want a certain softness in that work. Since many lenses are soft, relatively, at maximum aperture, your tests should be of particular value in this area. I shall be interested to see how the Steinheil fares, since I have that lens. My results mean more to me than lab tests do but, as William says, your test conditions are normal use conditions. Many of my subjects, incidentally, are little ladies. I am a Gramps, though, not a mere Daddy.

Roland, I cannot understand just how a difference in focal length will "compensate" for a difference in maximum aperture, never mind that both differences are small. Depth of field alone?

 

[rxmd]

Hi,

you might do another round of tests at f/5.6 or f/8, since at f/4 the two Elmars are maxed out already aperture-wise; it would be nice to see if there they profit from stopping down in comparison.

Philipp

 

[Rich Silfver]

I liked Ray's sequence from his 90mm lens test;
1. Wide Open
2. Stopped down 1 click
3. f8

Also, when it comes to your test subject I think one of the most important 'lessons' from Ray's test was to keep the exposure consistent and not shoot in changing light.

 

[dexdog]

Mark,
Wide open performance separates good lenses from excellent lenses. People pay a premium price to get lenses that perform well wide open. Your lens should do much better than my Canon lens wide open.

Raid

Raid, I am not sure that the 1.8 will be that much better than the 1.9, allthough the 1.8 certainly has a reputation as a great lens. However, I whole-heartedly agree with your statement that the 1.9 is a cool-looking lens, especialy when in excellent cosmetic shape. I almost bought one at a camera show once for that reason- it would look great on my Canon P

 

[raid]

Raid,

The test sounds great!

What is your protocol?

• resolution chart?
• color chart?
• brick wall?
• high contrast?
• low contrast?
• flare?
• 3d object?
• how much 3d space for bokeh check?
• tripod/cable release?
• film speed?
• time of day?
• same camera for all?
• focus by RF or tape measure?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks,
Lance

Lance,
You have many questions for me to answer!

Group I:
1. Summicron 90mm/2
2. Canon 1 85mm/1.9
3. Canon 2 85mm/1.8
4. Nikkor 85mm/2
5. Zeiss 85mm/2

Group II:
6. Elmarit 90mm/2.8
7. Steinheil 85mm/2.8
8. Nikkor 105mm/2.5

Group III:
9. Elmar 1 90mm/4
10. Elmar 2 90mm/4




I was thinking this morning about the first sketches of the test plan.

Step 1:

1. Take photos @ 2.0 2.8 and 4.0 for the lenses in Group I
2. Take photos @ 2.8 and 4.0 for the lenses in Group 2
3. Take photos @ 4.0 for the lenses in Group III.


The tests above allow:

* comparisons across all lenses @ 4.0
* comparisons across all lenses in Group II @ 2.8 and @ 4.0
* comparisons across all lenses in group III @ 4.0

All of the lenses will be sharp at 8.0. I don't see any need to do a test for all lenses at 8.0. With the Elmars, there is room to look at other apertures. I will think about small apertures.


The type of tests that I may do are as follows:

a. Bokeh: It seems that several RFF members missed Bokeh comparisons in my
last tests. I am still looking for a suitable set-up without stepping
out to the hot sun.

b. Flare: This is often a test of the particular examples of lenses that I happen
to test. In my last flare test of 5cm lenses I discocvered that two
lenses needed a CLA. On the other hand, there were obvious
differences in falre resistance even with the very clean lenses. I need
to find the suitable lens hood for the 105mm lens and also for the
Canon 85mm/1.8 lens.
I will [again] take photos of my daughter beside a window, and I will
include the window in the photo. This set-up worked last times.

c. General Rendition of a Person's face: My daughter will be the model again.
here, I will leave the window out of the photo.

d. Sharpness: This can be covered simultaneously by (c). I am not interested
in counting lines/MTF/bricks ... etc. I want to provide some
useful results for everyday users.


I hope that I will be covering sufficient aspects that are useful.

Raid

 

[raid]

These will be very interesting to see, Raid. Thank you for taking it up again. And please do consider the 135's sometime as well as that is a favored FL for me.

William

William,
If time permits, I will also include the three 135mm lenses (Hektor, Nikkor, Canon) that I own.

Raid