Testing Vintage Telephoto Lenses (Set-up)

[raid]

Lance,

Do a search on his name and "lens test" and you'll find a couple of his previous forays into this messy little field. Suffice to say, his tests are aimed at day to day use rather than anything terribly objective. Still, I find his results seriously useful and his daughter is an excellent test subject, BTW 😉

So, Raid, when do we get the 35 & 28 & (gasp) even wider test? :angel:

(G, D, & R)

William

William,
Yes, my tests are very basic and different from scientifically designed experiments (which I cover in my teaching of statistics). The reason for me doing so is simple; I want to see how my photos come out when I take them the way I usually do.

Wide angle lenses may come next. I am rather limited here;

Summicron 35mm/2 (8 element)
Summaron 35mm/3.5
Canon 35mm/1.8
Canon 35mm/2.8
Rokkor 28mm/2.8
Canon 28mm/3.5
CV 25mm/4

I could use Canon FD lenses with Converter B on a Leica, but they would not be rangefinder lenses.


Raid

 

[sbug]

William,
Yes, my tests are very basic and different from scientifically designed experiments (which I cover in my teaching of statistics). The reason for me doing so is simple; I want to see how my photos come out when I take them the way I usually do.

Wide angle lenses may come next. I am rather limited here;

Summicron 35mm/2 (8 element)
Summaron 35mm/3.5
Canon 35mm/1.8
Canon 35mm/2.8
Rokkor 28mm/2.8
Canon 28mm/3.5
CV 25mm/4

I could use Canon FD lenses with Converter B on a Leica, but they would not be rangefinder lenses.


Raid

Somebody get him a Nikkor 35/2.5 and a CV 35/2.5 in LTM.

 

[raid]

I still have to figure out how to best use the 105mm lens without having a 105 finder. Using a multiple focal length external finder was not so good in my early test of this lens. I must choose between 90mm and 135mm.

As for wideangle lenses, let's wait and see how the test for tele lenses comes out.

Raid

 

[VinceC]

I think Brian Sweeney had good experience using a 90mm frameline and tight framing with his 10.5cm.

Also, will you be shooting the tests from portrait distances/ fairly close focus?
Lenses perform differently at different focal distances, but I think close focus would be most beneficial.

Along with the Nikkor 35/2.5, there's of course the 35/1.8 (and a 25mm Nikkor/f4). Everyone talks about how hard these are to find (the 35/1.8), but I'm always seeing them on EBay for $600 to $1,000. Not cheap, but lots of folks pay a lot more than that for good Leitz glass.

 

[VinceC]

>>I was wondering, Vince, how hard is it to focus the 105 wide open and close up with an external finder ? DOF is very shallow ....<<

It's not easy. I've actually never used one with a separate finder. However, when I've shot with an S2 (quite awhile ago) I concentrated more on getting the face/eyes in focus and let framing take care of itself. With telephotos on rangefinders, I tend to compose fairly loose, then concentrate on staying in focus while awaiting the moment to shoot. With the parallax, if the eyes are in the focus patch, you probably don't have the subject centered. Which is good for composition.

The attached example was underexposed and so is grainy.

 

[dexdog]

William,
Yes, my tests are very basic and different from scientifically designed experiments (which I cover in my teaching of statistics). The reason for me doing so is simple; I want to see how my photos come out when I take them the way I usually do.

Wide angle lenses may come next. I am rather limited here;

Summicron 35mm/2 (8 element)
Summaron 35mm/3.5
Canon 35mm/1.8
Canon 35mm/2.8
Rokkor 28mm/2.8
Canon 28mm/3.5
CV 25mm/4

I could use Canon FD lenses with Converter B on a Leica, but they would not be rangefinder lenses.


Raid

Raid, if you ever decide to do a wide-angle test, I could ship you a Canon 35/2, Canon 25/4 and 28/2.8.

 

[NIKON KIU]

Riad took on a huge project as is, taking the task of comparing 10 lenses is not easy...now we're talking wide angle!
Come on guys let the man concentrate on the present task...I kinda feel guilty starting all this and putting Raid in the spotlight but he asked for it!
😉
Kiu
BTW Raid if you really need a 10.5cm viewfinder for your test, I'll send you one.

 

[raid]

I think Brian Sweeney had good experience using a 90mm frameline and tight framing with his 10.5cm.

Also, will you be shooting the tests from portrait distances/ fairly close focus?
Lenses perform differently at different focal distances, but I think close focus would be most beneficial.

Along with the Nikkor 35/2.5, there's of course the 35/1.8 (and a 25mm Nikkor/f4). Everyone talks about how hard these are to find (the 35/1.8), but I'm always seeing them on EBay for $600 to $1,000. Not cheap, but lots of folks pay a lot more than that for good Leitz glass.

Vince,
I sold off two Canon 35mm/1.8 lenses each at around $330.

Raid

 

[raid]

Riad took on a huge project as is, taking the task of comparing 10 lenses is not easy...now we're talking wide angle!
Come on guys let the man concentrate on the present task...I kinda feel guilty starting all this and putting Raid in the spotlight but he asked for it!
😉
Kiu
BTW Raid if you really need a 10.5cm viewfinder for your test, I'll send you one.

Kiu,
Thanks for the offer, but it would delay the test another week until the next weekend. I will try what was mentioned above; use the 90mm viewfinder and frame tightly. The other option is to use my Canon P with its 100mm frame lines. Maybe I could do the test with the Canon P in place of the Bessa T.

raid

 

[raid]

I was wondering, Vince, how hard is it to focus the 105 wide open and close up with an external finder ? DOF is very shallow ....

Roland.

Roland,
Here are my results with one roll taken with the 105mm lens wide open.
I did not have too much trouble with 50% of the photos.

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=624050

raid

 

[VinceC]

I'm very much looking forward to seeing the telephoto test.

(The Nikkor 35/1.8 has always commanded a premium. There weren't many made, as it was very expensive in its day.)

 

[raid]

I'm very much looking forward to seeing the telephoto test.

(The Nikkor 35/1.8 has always commanded a premium. There weren't many made, as it was very expensive in its day.)

Vince,
I meant the Canon 35mm/1.8 and not the Nikkor 35mm/1.8. Yes, you are right about the cost of a Nikkor 35mm/1.8.

Raid

 

[raid]

Raid, if you ever decide to do a wide-angle test, I could ship you a Canon 35/2, Canon 25/4 and 28/2.8.

Mark,

Thanks for the offer. I may take you up on it.

raid

 

[raid]

Roland,
It wasn't too bad since the 105mm focal length brings everything close to the eyes, and I can focus easily.

Raid

 

[lmd91343]

Raid,

That sounds like a great plan.

Can you arrange to have straight lines (window frames?) near the frame edge? This could be used for checking distortion. That is why I take pictures of brick walls!

How much space and how many objects on either side (front & back) of your daughter to check for OOF rendition?

I can't wait to see the results.

Don't wear out the threads on your camera! 😉

-Lance

Lance,
You have many questions for me to answer!

Group I:
1. Summicron 90mm/2
2. Canon 1 85mm/1.9
3. Canon 2 85mm/1.8
4. Nikkor 85mm/2
5. Zeiss 85mm/2

Group II:
6. Elmarit 90mm/2.8
7. Steinheil 85mm/2.8
8. Nikkor 105mm/2.5

Group III:
9. Elmar 1 90mm/4
10. Elmar 2 90mm/4




I was thinking this morning about the first sketches of the test plan.

Step 1:

1. Take photos @ 2.0 2.8 and 4.0 for the lenses in Group I
2. Take photos @ 2.8 and 4.0 for the lenses in Group 2
3. Take photos @ 4.0 for the lenses in Group III.


The tests above allow:

* comparisons across all lenses @ 4.0
* comparisons across all lenses in Group II @ 2.8 and @ 4.0
* comparisons across all lenses in group III @ 4.0

All of the lenses will be sharp at 8.0. I don't see any need to do a test for all lenses at 8.0. With the Elmars, there is room to look at other apertures. I will think about small apertures.


The type of tests that I may do are as follows:

a. Bokeh: It seems that several RFF members missed Bokeh comparisons in my
last tests. I am still looking for a suitable set-up without stepping
out to the hot sun.

b. Flare: This is often a test of the particular examples of lenses that I happen
to test. In my last flare test of 5cm lenses I discocvered that two
lenses needed a CLA. On the other hand, there were obvious
differences in falre resistance even with the very clean lenses. I need
to find the suitable lens hood for the 105mm lens and also for the
Canon 85mm/1.8 lens.
I will [again] take photos of my daughter beside a window, and I will
include the window in the photo. This set-up worked last times.

c. General Rendition of a Person's face: My daughter will be the model again.
here, I will leave the window out of the photo.

d. Sharpness: This can be covered simultaneously by (c). I am not interested
in counting lines/MTF/bricks ... etc. I want to provide some
useful results for everyday users.


I hope that I will be covering sufficient aspects that are useful.

Raid

 

[lmd91343]

Will do!

Thank you

Lance,

Do a search on his name and "lens test" and you'll find a couple of his previous forays into this messy little field. Suffice to say, his tests are aimed at day to day use rather than anything terribly objective. Still, I find his results seriously useful and his daughter is an excellent test subject, BTW 😉

So, Raid, when do we get the 35 & 28 & (gasp) even wider test? :angel:

(G, D, & R)

William

 

[Rich Silfver]

Introducing window frames would be introducing a substantial amount of day light which, regardless of how much we like it, does change and with that the need to change your exposure settings.

 

[VinceC]

Distortion's not much of an issue with telephotos.

 

[raid]

Introducing window frames would be introducing a substantial amount of day light which, regardless of how much we like it, does change and with that the need to change your exposure settings.

Rich,
I always check with a spotmeter a second before taking the photo.
Point well taken.

Raid

 

[raid]

Distortion's not much of an issue with telephotos.

I agree with Vince. When using wide angle lenses, it becomes a major issue.

Raid