That Leica CLA culture

[hteasley]

I have to admit I was surprised about the talk of CLAs when I first got my M8. Then, when I managed to get a used Summicron, I was wondering if it needed adjustment: it's ~24 years old, a tiny bit loose, and the aperture ring has a bit of play in it. I was of a mind to just keep using it, but all the repair talk made me post this thread.

So I agree with the article: there's too much talk about CLAs and repairs. What it ignores, is that a lot of the cameras that folks are getting CLA'd are 50, 60, 70 years old. Doesn't seem that terrible to me, to get a camera that old serviced.

I've had a lot of cameras, and only had one serviced: a 1969 Nikon F, given to me by my father. Had a CLA on that perhaps 4 years ago.

 

[jonmanjiro]

very off topic, but 'kiitos' means 'thanks' in Finnish. 😉

Azian, your training starts here...
http://www.pentax-manuals.com/manuals/service/leica basic repair.pdf
...just remember not to break anything.

come on guys, if there's demand, someone will do it. so do your part and keep shootin'.

cheers.

Yes indeed 🙂

from their website:

長年ニコンでカメラ修理を担当していた2名で会社を興し、お世話になった皆様への感謝の気持ちを表す言葉として、フィンランド語の「Kiitos：ありが とう」を社名としました

Our company was founded by two people who worked at Nikon for many years doing camera repairs, and to give thanks for all the people who have helped us over the years we named our company Kiitos (thank you in Finish).

 

[Paul Luscher]

Hear, hear, re CLA obsession. I go with something a Leica repairperson suggested some time back: take your camera out and run it through the shutter speeds once a week, if possible. Said that'd be enough to keep it in good shape. Worked for me so far. Camera only goes in (rarely, knock on wood) when something breaks.

 

[DNG]

Don't know about that.... but avid fans of any kind of stuff, usually like keeping it in top shape.
Personalty, I can't afford to have every camera/lens "CLA'd every few years. If But, if it is acting up... then I get fixed.

 

[Chris101]

When I first bought my M4-P it looked great, but I was aware that it was 25 years old. So as part of the purchase price, I included a "check up" for it in Tempe Camera Repair's service center (which is where I bought it.) This included an inspection of the mechanical parts and of the optical components. I don't think they oiled anything, and certainly didn't replace any parts, but they did check the shutter curtain for holes since it did came with a lens without a cap.

In addition to the 90 day warranty, this assured me that the camera was ready for regular use. I would have hated it if the camera broke upon use. Indeed it is my daily shooter - with confidence.

 

[feenej]

Reminds me, I need to send my last two Pentax SVs to PentaxS before that guy closes shop. Sticky mirrors, etc. (not that he is closing to my knowlege, but no time like the present)

 

[peter_n]

I've actually never had a camera CLA'd. The nearest I got to it was when I got a DX reader in an M7 upgraded to the optical version a couple years ago. Leica Solms threw in "adjust shutter times, adjust exp meter, adjust r/f, clean r/f, adjust all parts, cleaning" for free 🙂 (camera was under warranty).

I now use two MPs that are about 5 years old and I'm hoping they'll last for about another 20 years or so.

 

[anu L ogy]

Hey Chris,
Is Tempe camera worth checking out? I am living in Phoenix for a bit and it would be cool to mix it up because I've been going to the shop on McDowell.

 

[Chuck Albertson]

About once a year, the local Leica rep comes through town with someone from the Leica service department for a "clean and check" day at Glazer's. If one of my M's hasn't been in the shop for a while, I'll take it in and have the tech check the shutter speeds. I fly a lot with my cameras, and the high-frequency vibes they pick up in the overhead bins can do awful things to shutter mechanisms over time. If they're way off, I'll send it in for a CLA. Otherwise, I'll wait for the list of aggravations to build (the dusty eyepiece of the early MP, the sticking frame counter, etc.) before I send the thing in and have them all taken care of in one go.

 

[Nikon Bob]

When a camera has a major issue that needs professional attention I send it in for repair.
For once I will agree with Roger Hicks that if the camera has to be torn down anyway to do the repair it is economical to do a CLA at that time too. I had two Leicas, a IIIc and a IIIf, sent into replace the beam splitter so why not a CLA then too. If it ain't broke there is no reason to fix it. A IIf I have may never have been in for a CLA but it functions just fine so why bother with a CLA. I have not had a CLA done on any used Nikon SLRs that own.

Bob

 

[sepiareverb]

I've had many cameras repaired- but only two CLA'ed. The repairs have been for things that broke- the meter on an FE2 and an M7, a shutter blade on an F4S (yes I shot it that much), the bellows on a Fuji 645, a Pentax LX I dropped getting outof a car in a concrete parking lot and an M4-2 I got on ebay which arrived very much not as described- no working shutter- but was cheap enough that the cost of the repair was worth it. The CLAs? My M5, which sat in some very humid place for a very long time until I got it (maybe a repair- though it did work, and I had other work done to it at the same time) and an M4 with an extremely hazy VF- so bad I couldn't use it anymore if the sun was anywhere in front of me.

I have had cameras altered- replaced the VF on my M5 when the framelines started to degrade, (and so I could have 75 & 28 lines) changed the VF on an MP to a .58 and I've replaced the wind-on lever on several M7s over the years. Just boxed up one today for that. Tried unsuccessfully to have an F4S modified to shoot in the 8x10 proportions and wind-on to match.

I've not had a camera damaged by a CLA, but have heard of this. One repairer has been known to return cameras that appear to have been almost dunked in oil. I use two people when I need repairs to any camera. They do impeccable work and I trust their judgement. Marty Forscher is missed by me- there are few as good left.

 

[MartinP]

I was quite proud to recognise the Finnish 'kiitos' in the name of the Japanese repair shop and was just about to ask what it means in Japanese before I read the rest of the thread.

🙂

I haven't had an M CLA'd, but have one which was done, for reasons unclear but most likely perfectly sensible, within the last couple of years by the previous owner. Apart from that there was a dead shutter in an SLR about 25 years ago - replaced and still working (unless I just jinxed it).

 

[healyzh]

Dante mentions an interesting point and kind of links it to my question in that other thread about repairers.

What the hell are we all going to do once these current crew of repairers will themselves start creaking and cannot be saved by any CLA, or worse, keel over?

So I asked is there some sort of apprenticeship programme - to replace the likes of DAG, Krauter, etc - outside of Leica so that we don't have to go to Leica's totally rip-off prices?

This is something I've been wondering about myself. My favorite two camera's are my Hasselblad 500CM, and my Leica M6 TTL, followed closely by a Nikon FM2 and F3HP. I'd consider working on the Nikon's, in the 80's I even had to work on the 50mm Iuse on the FM2 as I was months away from being anywhere I could get it repaired (I'm still using that lens), but I wouldn't be comfortable working on the Hasselblad or the Leica. If one of my digital camera's dies, I'll just get a new one, but I'd just as soon keep the main film camera's I use running as they're all high quality instruments that deserve to be repaired rather than tossed.

I have a Minolta A-2 RF that I'd like to get CLA'd one of these days, honestly the only way I see that happening is if I do it myself, as I'm not about to spend the money to have it fixed, but for sentimental reasons I'd like to shoot a roll or two with it.

 

[braver]

The reality of it is that almost all the gear the we use is old if not antique, and not readily available new or in old stock. And when you do get your hands on something, chances are it has been sitting in a cupboard for decades. You need to get it back in shape first before 'just run the shutter weekly' is going to do any good.
The way my m6 came back after cla totally sold me on the cla concept and the skills of Will van Manen.

However, I've yet to get my Rolleiflex done, but it really needs a lube to ensure the longevity of the gears: I'm totally sure it has not been used for ar least as long as I'm old. Econonically it does not make sense, cause it will cost about 60% of what I paid for it, but it is in great shape otherwise, and buying another one doesn't change the fact that its been built over 50 years ago and people stopped using this stuff decades ago. You can't play the replacement game with this stuff and expect it to be around for much longer.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

I'm with Tom on this one. I had the meter in an M6 go dead after about 15 years and so sent it to Sherry. While she had it, I told her to go ahead and clean the thing. Works great. Ditto an M2 that had a shutter curtain problem. If you are replacing the curtains, why not relube a 60 year old camera of uncertain provenance? The best thing you can do for most of this equipment is use it. My F3HP? don't think it will ever give up.

Ben Marks

 

[David Hughes]

I get repairs done when they are needed but ask them to check the things whilst they have them. That adds a little to the bill or nothing and you get re-assurance that the thing is working properly and, don't have to return it (extra postal costs) for another repair or tweak. Often I find that minor tweaks etc - done by people who know what they are doing - change the camera a lot.

Also, after owning and using a camera a while you don't notice things have deteriorated, because it happens slowly. Once or twice a camera of mine has had to be completely stripped down for a job and then rebuilt etc. The result is usually a transformation; and that shouldn't be surprising but it often is.

And, like a lot of others on this forum, I don't own a single film camera that's under 10 years old. Most of mine are a little older and deserve an overhaul and a little TLC.

Regards, David

 

[dfoo]

The reality of it is that almost all the gear the we use is old if not antique, and not readily available new or in old stock. And when you do get your hands on something, chances are it has been sitting in a cupboard for decades. You need to get it back in shape first before 'just run the shutter weekly' is going to do any good.....

Nonsense. The first question should be: does it work? If so, why do you need to 'get it back in shape'? I'd certainly not get a CLA unless the answer to "does it work" is no. My M3, btw, still has the original Leica seal. It still works great!

 

[sig]

OK lets see..... The culture keeps the repairmen busy and the camera owners happy. What is wrong with that?

And nobody sends a camera for CLA unless they think it is needed.

 

[dfoo]

OK lets see..... The culture keeps the repairmen busy and the camera owners happy. What is wrong with that?

And nobody sends a camera for CLA unless they think it is needed.

Did you read the article? He explains exactly why its harmful. And "think" is exactly the problem. Lots of obsessive compulsive types think all sorts of things are necessary which in reality are not.

 

[sig]

Did you read the article? He explains exactly why its harmful. And "think" is exactly the problem. Lots of obsessive compulsive types think all sorts of things are necessary which in reality are not.

Yes I did. Still the fact is that nobody will send their camera in for cla unless they think it is needed. So the repair people destroys the cameras?

Ironically, it is places like RFF and the marketing by Leica that powers this culture. Leicas are supposed to be the pinnacle of cameras in use and mechanical perfection. When you get one you need to CLA it to make it to be what it is supposed to be.