The $7000 question

[dcsang]

What can the M9 do that the D700 can't Dave ... I mean realistically and not based on usage issues like weight and size etc?

The only tangible thing I can think of is use Leica rangefinder glass from back whenever up until current production!

Well... I'm talking usage issues 🙂
I can carry an "entire kit" (28, 35, 50) with an M body and it's not going to "weigh me down" over an entire day. The D700, 50mm f1.4, 35mm f2 and the 28mm would be pretty significant.

The only other thing I would say is long shutter speeds - I can get down to 1/6 with an M and not get camera shake - can't do that with the D700 and while the super duper high ISO will negate that in the D700, there are times when I WANT that slow shutter speed for motion 🙂

On the flip side, macros are, I believe, tougher with an M - and ya ya.. before Jaap or some other Leicaphile pontificates on the 90mm macro.. I'm aware.. but the macro with the D700 is, to me, easier.

Dave

 

[Roger Hicks]

What can the M9 do that the D700 can't Dave ... I mean realistically and not based on usage issues like weight and size etc?

The only tangible thing I can think of is use Leica rangefinder glass from back whenever up until current production!

Dear Keith,

Weight, size, small fast lenses, ease of use...

You're right. Nothing. Just like an 11x14 inch Gandolfi.

You mean that's not being realistic?

Cheers,

R.

 

[jamato8]

Interesting comments, all. I am both an ICU nurse and photographer with photography being over the last 35 years and an RN for 10. I will often go into the field for maybe 1 year or so shooting visual anthropology and natural history. In my work the SLR has ruled as it can do all that I normally need. I use the 5D, 5D II, 7D (and previous film and digital Canons) and an assortment of L lenses. I have acquired the M9 after a store I buy from said they would get the next one for me, which I feel fortunate though they are most likely pleased with the 7 grand. Well in my work the quiet unobtrusive nature of the M9 lends itself perfectly to certain aspects of my work. I also like the files from 160 to 2500. It is the most film like digital I have ever shot.

So get what you can afford and fits your need. For me, having shot the M3 DS and M2, which I still own, years ago, was a missed partner. I now have that partner again and truly rejoice at having a my Leica to record events with something that feels natural to me.

I shot this today in our local post office. After two shots (I got permission) this woman and the one next to here didn't even pay attention to me, which is often what I have found with the Leica.

iso 1200 M9 Summicron 50mm

 

[Keith]

Dear Keith,

Weight, size, small fast lenses, ease of use...

You're right. Nothing. Just like an 11x14 inch Gandolfi.

You mean that's not being realistic?

Cheers,

R.

I agree totally with what you say about size, ease of use etc Roger but my post was purely in regard to final output and the fact that both cameras can produce a digital file of similar quality.

That fact is real surely ! 🙂

 

[Keith]

Well... I'm talking usage issues 🙂
I can carry an "entire kit" (28, 35, 50) with an M body and it's not going to "weigh me down" over an entire day. The D700, 50mm f1.4, 35mm f2 and the 28mm would be pretty significant.

The only other thing I would say is long shutter speeds - I can get down to 1/6 with an M and not get camera shake - can't do that with the D700 and while the super duper high ISO will negate that in the D700, there are times when I WANT that slow shutter speed for motion 🙂

On the flip side, macros are, I believe, tougher with an M - and ya ya.. before Jaap or some other Leicaphile pontificates on the 90mm macro.. I'm aware.. but the macro with the D700 is, to me, easier.

Dave

Can't dispute the fact about the low shutter speeds Dave ... you got me there!

I regularly shoot down around 1/8 to 1/4 sec at my gallery gigs with my M8 and while I obviously get movement blur from the live subjects the static displays are always amazingly sharp!

I didn't buy the D700 to carry round for an entire day ... it'll be used for two hour jaunts mainly so hopefully my puny stature will cope! 😛

I still stand by what I said about the Nikon being a simple beast to use if you so choose ... in fact the ergonomics in reality are superior to the Leica considering I don't have to dive into a menu to change ISO! 😀

 

[Keith]

I am sorry to say that I disagree with you 😉. I used a D700 one year, and then switched to a RD-1, and now to a M9. The D700 ads a lot more complexity (as well as choices) that you cannot choose to ignore. Photography with the RD-1 is like breathing without a gas mask - the gas mask being a D700 😀

Well ... I've already chosen to ignore the complexity.

When I pick the camera up my choices are shuttter speed, aperture, ISO and focus ... the controls for each function being at my fingertips.

I have to admit the 440 page manual did intimidate me a little ... I think I'll just leave it on 'M' and stick to manual focus lenses! 😛

 

[hitx1]

jamato8,

very nice shot and superb tone in that shot of the attractive female. I do have a different aspect from a few shots I did today with the borrowed M8. Posting a few new comments in a post titled...The $7000 question, a different pov.

 

[alecgold]

@janice, great shot. How do you get people so far that they are willing to pose, when they are standing in line?

I have to admit the 440 page manual did intimidate me a little ... I think I'll just leave it on 'M' and stick to manual focus lenses! 😛

But isn't that using your advanced dSLR as an "cheap" M9, that is only faster when used in continuos mode?

 

[Keith]

@janice, great shot. How do you get people so far that they are willing to pose, when they are standing in line?


But isn't that using your advanced dSLR as an "cheap" M9, that is only faster when used in continuos mode?

That's true ... the D700 to me in some ways is a cheap M9. The $9500.00 asking price for the M9 in Oz is way beyond my means but $2400.00 for the Nikon was within comfortable reach.

Don't misunderstand me here ... I would love to own an M9 as I've always found my M8 an absolute pleasure to use but when the realisation came that I needed better High ISO performance and preferably full frame for my paid work the choice wasn't that hard! 🙂

 

[Roger Hicks]

I agree totally with what you say about size, ease of use etc Roger but my post was purely in regard to final output and the fact that both cameras can produce a digital file of similar quality.

That fact is real surely ! 🙂

Dear Keith,

Sure. But cameras aren't one-dimensional, any more than human beings are. Surely you've known geniuses who are arseholes and really nice people who were incredibly ugly to look at.

Much the same with cameras...

Cheers,

R.

 

[proenca]

Interesting nice discussion here going on...

But in the end of the day, these discussions get off the rails because people want everyone to agree with them and well, doesnt happen.

Let's not forget, people change. And so do opinions.

Heck, I was telling few months ago that a M8 is all I need right now - bought mine new, when it came out and served me so well.

Last Thursday my dealer said he had a M9 in stock for me. I frooze and said the most stupid words ever "I'll take it".

But I also have a Leica MP and use it with gusto.

Never understood why the film vs digital have to be a film OR digital and can't be film AND digital.

I shoot both and for example, now that I'm getting a M9, I've sold my M8 and kept my MP.

No, I do not feel religious neither elevated when I shoot film. No, I never developed film neither, to be honest, intend to do it. I like b/w film because I think its much more demanding and I like to push myself to become a better photographer and I think film helps me do it.

But I like digital and its convinience - I like its praticality. And sometimes I just can't be ar$ed to shoot film, develop, etc etc.

So I keep and shoot both. Both have their strenghts and weakness and while some overlap, others dont.

 

[dcsang]

I still stand by what I said about the Nikon being a simple beast to use if you so choose ... in fact the ergonomics in reality are superior to the Leica considering I don't have to dive into a menu to change ISO! 😀

Not gonna deny that 🙂

The ergonomics of the camera are very good - takes a while to get used to them coming from Canon but in the end they make a lot of sense.

I agree with the camera being as "dumb" or as "smart" as you want it.

I like mine to be "sort of smart" but not so smart that I forget what I'm doing with a scene 🙂

Cheers,
Dave

 

[flyalf]

Well ... I've already chosen to ignore the complexity.

When I pick the camera up my choices are shuttter speed, aperture, ISO and focus ... the controls for each function being at my fingertips.

I have to admit the 440 page manual did intimidate me a little ... I think I'll just leave it on 'M' and stick to manual focus lenses! 😛

The last time I looked there was no dedicated ISO button on the D700, you have to use some kind of turning one wheel-while-holding-a-buttom and look at a screen to check ISO. The same for M9. The RD-1 is of course better designed 😉. The D700 comes with aperture as default on one of the silly small wheels instead of the aperture ring on the lens (and if you have a G lens there are no aperture control ring on the lens). You can of course change this if you use -ehrmmm- the menu. Point to Leica and RD-1. Shutter speeds on the D700? Bracketing controls on D700? Not good enough as opposed to the RD-1, and partly M9.

Tried recently to use the manual focus on D700 - then compare with the screen on a old SLR like the D4 or a M9?

I dont disagree that the D700 is a great tool and worth each $. But the usability is for each and every to judge, so I will let you enjoy the D700 as I enjoy my choices 🙂