tingish
Member
Hi,
I've been interested in purchasing a 6x9 folder for a while now and since my birthday is coming up...I've decided to treat myself! I've been doing some research and have decided to purchase a folder from Jurgen (http://www.certo6.com/). My budget is around $200USD including shipping and I think I've managed to narrow it down to 2 cameras: the Agaf Record II (Apotar) or the Zeiss Nettar / Ikonta (Novar).
I was wondering if anyone had any opinions/experience with either of these cameras? Perhaps there is another camera that I should consider instead? Thank you in advance!
I've been interested in purchasing a 6x9 folder for a while now and since my birthday is coming up...I've decided to treat myself! I've been doing some research and have decided to purchase a folder from Jurgen (http://www.certo6.com/). My budget is around $200USD including shipping and I think I've managed to narrow it down to 2 cameras: the Agaf Record II (Apotar) or the Zeiss Nettar / Ikonta (Novar).
I was wondering if anyone had any opinions/experience with either of these cameras? Perhaps there is another camera that I should consider instead? Thank you in advance!
ZeissFan
Veteran
For a rangefinderless camera with a triplet, you shouldn't pay more than $100. Of course, that would be an unserviced camera.
The optical performance of the Apotar and Novar will be similar. Both should be very good when stopped down to f/8 or smaller.
Good things about the Agfa Record II
- Should have right-hand shutter release
- Apotar is a decent lens, for a triplet
- They fold to a a reasonably thin camera
Good things about the Zeiss Ikon Ikonta
- Bellows should be good out of the box
- Has a slight edge on build quality, compared with the Agfa
- Novar is a decent lens
You'll probably find that both use a Pronto shutter.
For my money, I would go for a Zeiss Ikon Ikonta C with an uncoated Tessar in a Compur shutter. They're very simple to service, and they tend not to have the same problems as the Agfa -- plastic-covered bellows that develop pinholes and green lubricant that has hardened to a concrete-like quality.
A few years ago, I paid $190 for this Super Ikonta C. It required a total restoration, and it's a great camera.
The optical performance of the Apotar and Novar will be similar. Both should be very good when stopped down to f/8 or smaller.
Good things about the Agfa Record II
- Should have right-hand shutter release
- Apotar is a decent lens, for a triplet
- They fold to a a reasonably thin camera
Good things about the Zeiss Ikon Ikonta
- Bellows should be good out of the box
- Has a slight edge on build quality, compared with the Agfa
- Novar is a decent lens
You'll probably find that both use a Pronto shutter.
For my money, I would go for a Zeiss Ikon Ikonta C with an uncoated Tessar in a Compur shutter. They're very simple to service, and they tend not to have the same problems as the Agfa -- plastic-covered bellows that develop pinholes and green lubricant that has hardened to a concrete-like quality.
A few years ago, I paid $190 for this Super Ikonta C. It required a total restoration, and it's a great camera.
ZeissFan
Veteran
In addition, there also is the Voigtlander Bessa cameras. The knock against them is that the lens yoke metal should have been made with a much stiffer metal.
Otherwise, they have excellent lenses: Helomar (triplet), Skopar (Tessar type) and Heliar (not sure of the optical formula).
These cameras come with and without rangefinders.
Otherwise, they have excellent lenses: Helomar (triplet), Skopar (Tessar type) and Heliar (not sure of the optical formula).
These cameras come with and without rangefinders.
tingish
Member
Thank you for your insight. So I looked into the Super Ikonta C, and would something like this be alright? (and how much more restoration would this camera need?)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Zeiss-Ikon-Supe...ViewItemQQptZFilm_Cameras?hash=item439d867555
I have also done a little more research into Certo6's work and I am now a little unsure due to all the mixed reviews. I really liked the idea of receiving a clean ready-to-go camera since eBay can be a bit sketchy...ahh I'm so torn.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Zeiss-Ikon-Supe...ViewItemQQptZFilm_Cameras?hash=item439d867555
I have also done a little more research into Certo6's work and I am now a little unsure due to all the mixed reviews. I really liked the idea of receiving a clean ready-to-go camera since eBay can be a bit sketchy...ahh I'm so torn.
photobizzz
Speak of the Devil
I have a Agfa Isolette II with 85/4.5 Agnar lens that I got lucky with, it has perfect bellows and basically looks and works like new. I also picked up a Bessa I and a Voigtlander external rangefinder. I am currently waiting on the Bessa I, if I had the money I would go for the Voigtlander Bessa II with the Color Skopar or Color Heliar; but they tend to go for around $500-1500 depending on condition and lens.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
I'm an Agfa not a Zeiss user.
If you are not a tinkerer, I would lean towards the Zeiss Ikonta with a Novar or Tessar lens. The Zeiss Ikonta C that Mike linked to is a good one, mainly because it predates the Albada viewfinder which yellows with age.
Agfas were a step or two down from Zeiss-Ikon in build quality. Unless the original Agfa bellows have been replaced. they will leak light. Replacement bellows are about $75 USD - uninstalled.
Also, the lubricant Agfa used for their lens helical generally has hardened into a glue-like substance by the 1990'ies. If the camera has been rebuilt, then this won't be a problem.
With regards to the Record II, I prefer its predecessor the Billy Record II with the shutter and lens from an a Record II - or - the Record III, which has an uncoupled rangefinder to assist in setting the focus.
An uncoupled rangefinder operates independently from the lens. So, one must first operate the RF. Read the RF scale. Then adjust the focus helical.
Once again, the normal non-rangefinder Zeiss Ikon Ikonta is the safest bet.
If you are not a tinkerer, I would lean towards the Zeiss Ikonta with a Novar or Tessar lens. The Zeiss Ikonta C that Mike linked to is a good one, mainly because it predates the Albada viewfinder which yellows with age.
Agfas were a step or two down from Zeiss-Ikon in build quality. Unless the original Agfa bellows have been replaced. they will leak light. Replacement bellows are about $75 USD - uninstalled.
Also, the lubricant Agfa used for their lens helical generally has hardened into a glue-like substance by the 1990'ies. If the camera has been rebuilt, then this won't be a problem.
With regards to the Record II, I prefer its predecessor the Billy Record II with the shutter and lens from an a Record II - or - the Record III, which has an uncoupled rangefinder to assist in setting the focus.
An uncoupled rangefinder operates independently from the lens. So, one must first operate the RF. Read the RF scale. Then adjust the focus helical.
Once again, the normal non-rangefinder Zeiss Ikon Ikonta is the safest bet.
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
Goodness no, don't buy from that outfit. Known for very inflated pricing (though not even the record holders in that regard).
Personally, I've never shopped in the $200 region for folders, but others here will have good advice. I think you should be able to find some very nice ones.
If you're at all comfortable with estimating the focus distance and/or you're not sure yet that this is what you want, why not start with a simple scale focus folder? There are plenty of them even around $20.
In my -- limited, I admit -- experience, Zeiss Nettars are basic, but hold up very well. Agfa, see ZeissFan above. Kodaks are ridiculously cheap but use 620 film and painted fabric bellows that don't age well. You already know the Certo6 website. IMO, excellent info, but also intended to drive business to his ebay listings, which are overpriced. Good luck!
ZeissFan
Veteran
If you're not in a big rush, I expect to complete work on a Zeiss Ikon Ikonta C 521/2 next week or the week after. It has an uncoated Tessar lens and a Compur Rapid shutter. It is a zone focus camera.
I just sold a very nice Mess Ikonta 524/2 with a Novar and uncoupled rangefinder. You focus by dial, read the distance from the dial and set the lens to that distance.
A serviced Agfa camera is really a nice piece of gear. They served many market segments for many years. It was a shame to see them bite the dust. I have a lot of Agfas.
I just sold a very nice Mess Ikonta 524/2 with a Novar and uncoupled rangefinder. You focus by dial, read the distance from the dial and set the lens to that distance.
A serviced Agfa camera is really a nice piece of gear. They served many market segments for many years. It was a shame to see them bite the dust. I have a lot of Agfas.
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Bill58
Native Texan
I don't have a 120/220, but I believe members here by the RFF names of Mael and FallisPhoto also rehab & sell rehab'd 120s. From reading posts on RFF, they also have good reputations.
I think wisdom would dictate buying from someone here rather than Certo6 when you decide what to buy. You can find both of them thru the Member's List above.
Good luck!
Bill
I think wisdom would dictate buying from someone here rather than Certo6 when you decide what to buy. You can find both of them thru the Member's List above.
Good luck!
Bill