The Bertele Sonnar 5cm F2 Picture Thread.

I really like the lens but I am predisposed to the Soviet Sonnars and by extension the actual Zeiss Sonnars. I just hope thae Scots are a wee bit generous in their pricing.

Having been married to an Ayrshire lassie I can tell you that the Scots are fiercely proud as a people, fiercely proud of what they have accomplished and more than happy to educate you to the fact that they graduate fine engineers (John Brown & Company - Wikipedia) My old father-in-law proudly told me that the QE II when launched came to rest just shy of the other side of the Clyde, as Brown's engineers had planned and predicted. Ask the folks at Skyllaney and they can supply you a list of Scots accomplishments in engineering, science and art. They are also reputed to be alchemists devoted to the transmigration of malted barley into a magic liquid. I have heard that rumor. Single malts are mothers milk. ;o)
 
Sonnar Brian said:
I've not done a direct comparison yet. I will be doing one. I'll post a quick Tripod mounted test that I did between the C-Sonnar, J3+, and 1950 KMZ J-3 with perfect glass, I did a lot of work on it as it was unusable. The rear triplet was in the wrong position.
Click to expand...
I think this is the first side-by-side comparison I've seen with the Jupiter 3+. I'm frankly amazed - it's horrific! I would say I expect more from a brand new lens... but it's Lomography, so maybe not.
 
Coldkennels said:
I think this is the first side-by-side comparison I've seen with the Jupiter 3+. I'm frankly amazed - it's horrific! I would say I expect more from a brand new lens... but it's Lomography, so maybe not.
Click to expand...
I think that the rendering of OOF areas with the J3+ is unique, but perhaps an acquired taste. I remember the first time that I used the J3+ wide open I wondered whether the thing was decentered. Further testing confirmed that my lens is not de-centered. The OOF is kinda chaotic wide open, calms down quite a bit by f2.
 
dexdog said:
I think that the rendering of OOF areas with the J3+ is unique, but perhaps an acquired taste.
Click to expand...
It's not even the background that bothers me - it's the foreground, the edge of frame and colour rendering at f/1.5 that all look awful to my eyes.

The C-Sonnar obviously looks better across the board, but even the 1950 J3 that Brian had to tinker with to get working properly is a vast improvement over the J3+.

I was tempted to buy one when I first saw they were being released. I'm glad I didn't now!
 
The 1950 Jupiter-3 is really a Wartime Sonnar that was completed in the USSR as "Assembly practice". It was held in the Contax mount using sewing thread and could not be focused, the focal length was short and could not be moved back enough. That translates into Perfect Glass that waited for me for over 60 years to fix. The J3+ is Russian glass, much closer to my v2 KMZ lenses.
 
Last edited:
boojum said:
I really like the lens but I am predisposed to the Soviet Sonnars and by extension the actual Zeiss Sonnars. I just hope thae Scots are a wee bit generous in their pricing.

Having been married to an Ayrshire lassie I can tell you that the Scots are fiercely proud as a people, fiercely proud of what they have accomplished and more than happy to educate you to the fact that they graduate fine engineers (John Brown & Company - Wikipedia) My old father-in-law proudly told me that the QE II when launched came to rest just shy of the other side of the Clyde, as Brown's engineers had planned and predicted. Ask the folks at Skyllaney and they can supply you a list of Scots accomplishments in engineering, science and art. They are also reputed to be alchemists devoted to the transmigration of malted barley into a magic liquid. I have heard that rumor. Single malts are mothers milk. ;o)
Click to expand...
I thought Skyllaney had only moved to Scotland a few years ago from down south in Gloucestershire
 
rodt16s said:
I thought Skyllaney had only moved to Scotland a few years ago from down south in Gloucestershire
Click to expand...
Well there goes that brouhaha down the drain. The Scots do turn out great engineers and scientists, Watt, Fleming, Stirling to name but three. And then there is the Bard of Ayrshire, Burns.
 
Having worked in a large multi-discipline Research Lab starting in 1978, I've met highly capable engineers of many nationalities. My theory- if you took your toys apart to see how they work when you were a kid, you will likely make a good engineer. If you managed to put them back together, or repair broken ones as a kid- even better.

Chris is a brilliant engineer, one that fell in love with optical design. Could work anywhere he wanted. Chose to work with photographic lenses, and producing this tribute to Ludwig Bertele 90 years after the release of the first Sonnar. The Leica world is lucky that Chris set up Skyllaney. More will come on the story. To me- it is a story of perseverance and accomplishment during the "Covid age".
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JMF
There are great engineers the world around but after living amongst Scots for a long while I am aware that they get short shrift for much other than Haggis, bagpipes and whiskey. Not unlike the French who invented what we are driving on, radial tires which premiered on the Citroën 2CV.

I am looking forward with some dread to the arrival of the Skyllaney Bertele. I don't need it and probably cannot afford it but am interested in it. They and LLL are doing some interesting work.
 
milescl said:
@Sonnar Brian How many degrees is the focus from minimum to infinity? Excited to see more photos and hear more updates from Skyllaney.
Click to expand...
My lens is "About" (eye-ball v1) 210degrees for closest focus to infinity. The production lenses will focus closer than the 0.8m (go to 0.7m) that the pre-production batch of 5 focus to.
 
Sonnar Brian said:
My lens is "About" (eye-ball v1) 210degrees for closest focus to infinity. The production lenses will focus closer than the 0.8m (go to 0.7m) that the pre-production batch of 5 focus to.
Click to expand...
It is exciting - geekdom - and interesting to watch this lens evolve, especially now that the Oracle can speak. I do hope it is affordable. I like Sonnars as you know. I've really gotta stop buying lenses.
 
boojum said:
It is exciting - geekdom - and interesting to watch this lens evolve, especially now that the Oracle can speak. I do hope it is affordable. I like Sonnars as you know. I've really gotta stop buying lenses.
Click to expand...
My wife asked me if I was going to be like some of the people that worked at the Lab- "Really Retire" when they were 85+ years old. Told her probably not, I have a lot of lenses to test.
 
You are among the very, very few who have managed to blend profession and hobby and succeed at both. The other 99% of us have not been able to do that. Finding something that captures your interest makes focusing the mind that much easier.
 
Sounds like an interesting concept and likely a very nice lens. They've apparently done some innovative engineering with your help, Brian. From a marketing perspective, it wouldn't hurt to get it in the hands of a few more photographers who can make a wider variety of memorable images with it.
 
Last edited:
Well they are not getting mine.

This lens is an "Operational Development Model" to use my R&D terms. There are 5 of these. The only reason why mine is SN9 is because Chris asked what number I wanted and I like the Beatles. Number 9. I had mine for two days before taking it apart and changing the optimization, and noted some other mechanical changes that needed to be made. "Engineer's Hat On", provided a detailed list. After changing the optimization, and matching my 1934 Sonnar to this one, proceeded with shooting images. I note in the Skyllaney announcement, that Production lenses will be optimized for wide-open use.

So far- the only images I've seen from them are mine, and the ones from Chris posted on the Skyllaney site. I'm waiting to see what the other Three users produce.

After I changed the variable shim for wide-open use. Pairs at F2 and F4, fence post at 1m and minimum focus "0.8m" on the ODM, will be 0.7m on the production lens. After pixel-peeping these, made a very slight change.L1025513.jpgL1025514.jpgL1025515.jpgL1025516.jpgL1025522.jpgL1025523.jpgL1025553.jpg
 
Last edited:
The rain let up, the trees are blossoming, and had tome for a walk before Monday and work came around.

L1026801.jpgL1026802.jpgL1026803.jpgL1026804.jpg

F2 and F4 Pairs- pointed Skyward where the sun can clip the front element.
The multicoated optics do well. You can see some flare in the last shot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom