Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Don't we fight to the death here any more Roger ... has some miscreant changed the rules?
I'll put the dueling pistols back in the cabinet then ... and I guess I won't be seeing you at dawn after all!
daveywaugh
Blah
But you can scan your neg - so surely it can be both worlds. Isn't that the point?
Chris101
summicronia
I deal with film in two very different ways. First, I scan it - Of course I scan all of my rolls - I make a digital contact scan. From that I can determine what, exactly is on my negatives. Even when I use a rangefinder, I must blink when I push the button, because the captured expression, and juxtaposition, is always a surprise.
Then my negatives can go two different routes. One starts with scanning the negative in a dedicated film scanner at high resolution. The negative is now subject to a large subset of the options a digital file has - the built-in grain and characteristic and non-linear curve puts constraints on what digital mnipulations can be done, but it can indeed be worked. And printed on a 7800 or so machine where the final print looks and feels like a nice RC optical print, or even a bit better.
But the ultimate print is made by the traditional process of darkroom printing on fiber based paper. I often then tone the final print. Even if it just involves a selenium tone, which only protects the print if the standard black and white look of silver is what I was looking for to begin with.
But silver printing is actually only the beginning. Toning, indeed multi-toning can create one-of-a-kind art from a negative, and often does. I rarely keep notes on what I do once I begin using silver paper - toning as well as he rest of it.
Remember folks, a silver print is a one-of-a-kind image, which can be aproximated, but never duplicated. Digital files (unless they ae deleted) can be replicated at will.
Then my negatives can go two different routes. One starts with scanning the negative in a dedicated film scanner at high resolution. The negative is now subject to a large subset of the options a digital file has - the built-in grain and characteristic and non-linear curve puts constraints on what digital mnipulations can be done, but it can indeed be worked. And printed on a 7800 or so machine where the final print looks and feels like a nice RC optical print, or even a bit better.
But the ultimate print is made by the traditional process of darkroom printing on fiber based paper. I often then tone the final print. Even if it just involves a selenium tone, which only protects the print if the standard black and white look of silver is what I was looking for to begin with.
But silver printing is actually only the beginning. Toning, indeed multi-toning can create one-of-a-kind art from a negative, and often does. I rarely keep notes on what I do once I begin using silver paper - toning as well as he rest of it.
Remember folks, a silver print is a one-of-a-kind image, which can be aproximated, but never duplicated. Digital files (unless they ae deleted) can be replicated at will.
I like them all... but... to me, out of the ones I've used... I like the M6 Classic. Out of all of them... M9 and MP.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
No.
If you are earning a living with the camera -- illustrating articles -- you pretty much need digital. I look back with horror on doing pack and product shots and step by steps with film, and for most of the pics I shoot for my websites, digi wins too.
If you are making the best possible black and whites, for pleasure, film is the only way to go for me.
Cheers,
R.
HuubL
hunter-gatherer
M4-2 and M4-P the same choice item???
coelacanth
Ride, dive, shoot.
Last time I voted for M6 Classic (HM) which was my only Leica then. After going though M3, M2, M4, M6 and MP (and CL), I voted for MP this time, but it's based on my experience with a modified MP with fewer framelines that I have. Compared with standard MP, M2 comes close, then M4 followed by M6 classic.
Lightmeter is not really a part of decision making for me. It's handy, but no crucial for my needs (I shoot b/w most of time).
I prefer M2/3/MP style rewind knob as it won't get in the way when I carry it around. I don't mind slower rewinding. I strongly prefer simpler frameline set.
Digital Ms are not an option for me at least as in the same category as film Ms because my hobby is film photography including the whole process, and digital camera photography is not my hobby at least right now.
Lightmeter is not really a part of decision making for me. It's handy, but no crucial for my needs (I shoot b/w most of time).
I prefer M2/3/MP style rewind knob as it won't get in the way when I carry it around. I don't mind slower rewinding. I strongly prefer simpler frameline set.
Digital Ms are not an option for me at least as in the same category as film Ms because my hobby is film photography including the whole process, and digital camera photography is not my hobby at least right now.
Bully
Established
Hi,
yes, I had the choice to separate all variations of the M4 or to separate M8 and M8.2.
As you can see I took the second variation. I know that my choice cannot present all possibilities, but I hope it´s o.k.
For now it is a very interesting poll, the oldest (M3) fights with the youngest (M9) to get the second place. For how long will the M7 take the second place?
Bully
Bully
Established
Perhaps the M9 will take your opinion to new worlds...?
coelacanth
Ride, dive, shoot.
Hmmm. Of course it might change in the future as a new hobby (digital photography that is), but as of now, I don't see it that way because full frame or not is not part of decision making for me, although I'd much prefer full frame if I'm forced to move on to digital.
I've used -and still do- digital cameras for work (I'm not a pro photographer) and classifieds/ebay listing, but it's not my hobby.
I'm not saying "digital camera is not a real camera!" It's just that I like the b/w film as a medium and film camera is a "vehicle" for the medium, and comparing that with digital camera/Photoshop/inkjet printer is not making much of sense, again, just for me personally. It's not one is better then the other, it's just different.
And as another part of hobby, I just like all mechanical things made of metal. I still ride/wrench carburetor driven motorcycle and lugged steel bicycles.
I've used -and still do- digital cameras for work (I'm not a pro photographer) and classifieds/ebay listing, but it's not my hobby.
I'm not saying "digital camera is not a real camera!" It's just that I like the b/w film as a medium and film camera is a "vehicle" for the medium, and comparing that with digital camera/Photoshop/inkjet printer is not making much of sense, again, just for me personally. It's not one is better then the other, it's just different.
And as another part of hobby, I just like all mechanical things made of metal.
I still ride/wrench carburetor driven motorcycle and lugged steel bicycles.
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daveywaugh
Blah
Surely you are not using an M9 for product shots? ;-) Roger - I also don't think the OP was concerned with the 'professional capabilities' of one camera over another.
Interestingly, since you brought it up, I'd say there are as many pro M film shooters as those with M9's at the moment. I am certainly NOT a pro photographer, or even a 'photographer' but until recently I worked with them everyday as a retoucher. Two I know now have M9's, but they see them as their fun toys and certainly not their professional cameras. At that price point they are using D3x, 1DsMkIII or the hassy's and Mamiyas. The M9 for enjoyment and personal work for sure (but then most still prefer to shoot film as you eluded).
I agree with what you said to a certain extent but I think you completely missed the point of the OP. Hey I think the M9 is absolutely fantastic - I even bought the brochure ;-) but as the ultimate M for the rest of us... no way! And yeah, in this day and age you CAN have the best of both worlds. For me it would be an M6TTL, 50mm whatever, TMAX, some developer etc., Portra and a Nikon 5000. Cost? Gee I dunno but I reckon I'd have a chunk of change left for that trip ;-)
phil devries
phil devries
I've not the experience with all of those various models, but the M6 seems pretty bullet-proof in any situation I've pounded it through. With the 35 and a few pother lenses I know what comes out on the film with a certain degree of confidence as the shutter trips. To me it is the lenses and a box that just keeps going.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I'm still in disbelief that the MP has garnered twice as many votes as it's nearest competitor!
Is it the black paint option ... the rewind shaft that dates back to the fifties ... maybe the fact that Roger has given it the nod?
The poor M5 that has features that totally set it apart from any other M has two measley votes ... what goes on here?
Is it the black paint option ... the rewind shaft that dates back to the fifties ... maybe the fact that Roger has given it the nod?
The poor M5 that has features that totally set it apart from any other M has two measley votes ... what goes on here?
Austerby
Well-known
I'm afraid to say that (with all due respect) I too rather think Roger's missed the point here - the question is about the best of both worlds (ie film and digital) and for all the marvels of the M8/.2/9 they're not film cameras.
Therefore it has to be a camera capable of a hybrid workflow, which means it should be the most technically capable M, which is why I voted for the M7. It is no more susceptible to electronic failure than a digital M, actually less so as it has the mechanical back-up. It has both a great AE capability and TTL flash, neither of which are present on the MP.
The MP is a great camera but hardly a technical advance - more a re-worked modern M2. Nothing wrong with that at all, but let's not pretend it's something it really isn't IMHO.
For me, the ability to scan film obviates the need for a digital rangefinder and I'm content to have the best of both worlds - an M7, an M3 and a good scanner.
Therefore it has to be a camera capable of a hybrid workflow, which means it should be the most technically capable M, which is why I voted for the M7. It is no more susceptible to electronic failure than a digital M, actually less so as it has the mechanical back-up. It has both a great AE capability and TTL flash, neither of which are present on the MP.
The MP is a great camera but hardly a technical advance - more a re-worked modern M2. Nothing wrong with that at all, but let's not pretend it's something it really isn't IMHO.
For me, the ability to scan film obviates the need for a digital rangefinder and I'm content to have the best of both worlds - an M7, an M3 and a good scanner.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
I had indeed missed the point! In my defence I'll say that if your interpretation is correct, the M8/8.2/9 shouldn't be on the poll at all.
Easily MP in that case.
When I was at the Forbidden City and found that the batteries for my MP were back at the hotel, I was annoyed, but that was all.
Cheers,
R.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Still, I stand by my choice of the M6 non-TTL 0.85. Tops over the MP: faster rewind, much more durable finish. Oh, and the flare-difficult sight issue with the M6 is a typical internet hype. Being aware it might flare and simply looking at the RF patch with a bit more concentration really does the trick.
And, if ever visiting the Forbidden City, I will leave my batteries at the hotel as well
And, if ever visiting the Forbidden City, I will leave my batteries at the hotel as well
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Is the M6 much better than the M4-P? Because comparing M4-P and M2, there's no doubt that the flare is sometimes bad enough to make the camera unusable -- for example when photographing musicians, out of doors, lit by spotlights. Fortunately I had an M2 with me as well.
A big advantage of the non-ttl over the ttl is that the shutter speed dial goes the right way.
Cheers,
R.
A big advantage of the non-ttl over the ttl is that the shutter speed dial goes the right way.
Cheers,
R.
MCTuomey
Veteran
Roger, since you use the M8/8.2, do you find the dial difference annoying when you switch to your MP from the digi bodies? I would think you might prefer the consistency of the M6-ttl and M7.
Best,
Mike
sepiareverb
genius and moron
MP3 isn't on the list?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Mike,
I found it easier to live with than I expected.
I am however hoping that Leica will offer a right-way-round shutter speed dial when demand slows enough to allow them to offer an à la carte M9.
Cheers,
R.