Pirate
Guitar playing Fotografer
Yashica, Rollei, Mamiya....
Is there a Good, Better, Best, in the TLR world?
Is there a Good, Better, Best, in the TLR world?
The Best TLR?
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valdas
Veteran
it depends... best for what? I vote for Rolleiflex...
Krosya
Konicaze
Depends on what you like. There many good ones. I have 4 TLRs now and like them all for different reasons.
Rolleiflex, Autocord - are sure great performers. My Voigtlander Superb is a more rare and unusual one that actually does pretty well, once I got it in a good working condition.
My last one is also a rare cool one - AiresFlex. Very nice camera.
All really comes down to which lens' drawing you like and wich camera handles better for your shooting style. There are lots of fine TLRs.
Rolleiflex, Autocord - are sure great performers. My Voigtlander Superb is a more rare and unusual one that actually does pretty well, once I got it in a good working condition.
My last one is also a rare cool one - AiresFlex. Very nice camera.
All really comes down to which lens' drawing you like and wich camera handles better for your shooting style. There are lots of fine TLRs.
Pirate
Guitar playing Fotografer
I know it's all subjective, but, looking at how long some of these cameras have been around, I would say a best in certain areas, such as: Rollei is the best in reliability... Yashica is the best in lens glass... stuff like this that you guys know about from shooting them.
John Lawrence
Well-known
I'm sure you'll get a load of different replies, each extolling the virtues of their favourite brand.
My thoughts are that a lot comes down to personal preference. For instance, I've always enjoyed using Rollei and Yashica TLRs, rather than Mamiya. Nothing wrong with Mamiyas, and I know a good many photographers who love them, but they're just not for me.
John
My thoughts are that a lot comes down to personal preference. For instance, I've always enjoyed using Rollei and Yashica TLRs, rather than Mamiya. Nothing wrong with Mamiyas, and I know a good many photographers who love them, but they're just not for me.
John
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Krosya
Konicaze
While I have never used Mamiya TLRs, - results I have seen from those cameras are awsome - sharp with great bokeh, - very very nice. However, the size of them turns me away from Mamiya TLRs and toward smaller ones. I think Autocord (Minolta) is a great camera. Well built, amazing lenses, very comfortable and intuitive bottom focusing lever. I prefer it to knob focus of nearly all other TLRs.
Built - I dont think that Rolleis are any better built than other well known brands. If you have taken a few different TLRs apart and put them together, CLA them - you would see that many are pretty much the same. Actually some are better than Rollei IMO - same materials, yet simpler to work on. Some fine TLRs like Yashicas, Kalloflex, AIRESFlex are very well built.
Lenses - well, if you are Ok with a Tessar type lens - I'd rather go with Japanese TLRs like Yashica, Minolta, etc.
However if you need a Planar - well - Rolleis are hard to beat. There were a few other TLRs with 2.8 Taking lens and "possibly" Planar, or rather "not a Tessar" formula lens, but those are hard to find and from what I hear are not vey reliable.
So, Rollei is the safest yet usually more expensive choice. Is it the best? Only you can answer that. For me - well, I have 4 TLRs - that should tell you that none of the is the best for me. Each has something I like and each draws differently, so that gives me a reason to keep all of them.
Airsflex is not pictured - it's still undergoing CLA.
Built - I dont think that Rolleis are any better built than other well known brands. If you have taken a few different TLRs apart and put them together, CLA them - you would see that many are pretty much the same. Actually some are better than Rollei IMO - same materials, yet simpler to work on. Some fine TLRs like Yashicas, Kalloflex, AIRESFlex are very well built.
Lenses - well, if you are Ok with a Tessar type lens - I'd rather go with Japanese TLRs like Yashica, Minolta, etc.
However if you need a Planar - well - Rolleis are hard to beat. There were a few other TLRs with 2.8 Taking lens and "possibly" Planar, or rather "not a Tessar" formula lens, but those are hard to find and from what I hear are not vey reliable.
So, Rollei is the safest yet usually more expensive choice. Is it the best? Only you can answer that. For me - well, I have 4 TLRs - that should tell you that none of the is the best for me. Each has something I like and each draws differently, so that gives me a reason to keep all of them.
Airsflex is not pictured - it's still undergoing CLA.
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Pirate
Guitar playing Fotografer
What about those little Rollei 4x4's? Do these fall into the same category as all the standard 6x6 TLR's? And what kind of film do they use in a 4x4??
Gumby
Veteran
127 roll film.
More difficult to source than 120, less emulsions available, and more difficult to get processed. They are cute cameras, but their utility is gone.
Other than film and negative size, they are functionally similar to 6x6/120 TLRs.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Good: Yashica
Better: Rolleicord, Autocord, Diacord
Best: 3 Rolleiflex each with Planar, Distagon, and Sonnar
Second best: A complete Mamiya C330 system, but watch your back. It's heavy.
And then there's the Interesting category where quality measurement includes "character": Super Ricohflex, Seagull 107, Rolleiflex Standard, Voigtlander Superb, Graflex 22, Mamiyaflex with Zuiko lens.
Better: Rolleicord, Autocord, Diacord
Best: 3 Rolleiflex each with Planar, Distagon, and Sonnar
Second best: A complete Mamiya C330 system, but watch your back. It's heavy.
And then there's the Interesting category where quality measurement includes "character": Super Ricohflex, Seagull 107, Rolleiflex Standard, Voigtlander Superb, Graflex 22, Mamiyaflex with Zuiko lens.
fbf
Well-known
rolleiflex is the best. I like xenotar and sonnar. No, I am not a planar fan nor a distagon fan.
Spavinaw
Well-known
Krosya,
I have an Airesflex that needs a CLA. Who did you send yours to? After you get it back, I'd like to know if you are pleased with the work and the approximate cost. Thanks for the info.
I have an Airesflex that needs a CLA. Who did you send yours to? After you get it back, I'd like to know if you are pleased with the work and the approximate cost. Thanks for the info.
filmfan
Well-known
I think the Rolleiflex 3.5F (Schneider Xenotar 75mm f/3.5 lens). Maybe it's only because I own one...but maybe it actually is the best.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
The newer Rolleiflex FX/GX are pretty awesome cameras. Updated optics and metering capabilities. Extremely light.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
+1
A big advantage of the Rolleiflex 3.5F is the very bright 2.8 viewing lens over earlier model Rolleiflexes. The 2.8 F's are bulkier and heavier in comparison. To me the 3.5F is better balanced. Addional options 120/220 switch and a built in meter are great features that are not available in earlier models. In another thread a poster said, "Later third, fourth and fifth versions of 3.5F are the pinicle of Rolleiflex." These are the versions with the updated six element lenses.
Disclaimer: I own a Schneider Xenotar 3.5F "Whiteface." Built in meter and 120/220 switch.
Cal
newspaperguy
Well-known
Having owned several of each I would rank: Rolleiflex, Autocord, Rolleicord.
A nearly forgotten, really nice, camera is the Kodak Reflex II. The brightest screen on the market for many years (Kodak claimed "See the image 2 1/2 times as bright.")
It has a 3.5 Kodak Anastar lens and is built like a tank.
Talk about bulletproof - Even the leather case has a steel lining!
The down sides: 620 film and no self cocking or double exposure prevention.
But a solid performer - I occasionally rewind a roll of 120 just to play with one.
A nearly forgotten, really nice, camera is the Kodak Reflex II. The brightest screen on the market for many years (Kodak claimed "See the image 2 1/2 times as bright.")
It has a 3.5 Kodak Anastar lens and is built like a tank.
Talk about bulletproof - Even the leather case has a steel lining!
The down sides: 620 film and no self cocking or double exposure prevention.
But a solid performer - I occasionally rewind a roll of 120 just to play with one.
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Steve M.
Veteran
There probably is no best one, but here's some of my favorites that I've owned.
Minolta Autocord: Light, relatively small, and has a great Rokkor lens. Good value for the money.
Rolleiflex Standrd: Very small, light, and dependable because it's so cheap. The best are the ones w/ the 1/500 top shutter speed and 3.5 Tessar. Nifty bubble level in the corner of the ground glass (every TLR should have this). Uncoated lens works extremely well for B&W.
Rolleiflex w/ uncoatd lens: These are normal sized and have a sharper lens than the earlier standards, as well as the more modern self cocking shutters. Great for B&W (like the Standard, a hood and yellow filter will make a nice improvement in your pics).
Rolleiflex T: One of my favorites. It's another Tessar, but this has one of the best ever made. Reformulated to be very sharp and contrasty. This model has the removable focusing hood, making focus screen changes a snap, and you can get to the mirror easily for an adjustment or replacement. A prism goes right on as well. Shutter and aperture work off of one lever, which takes some getting used to, but once figured out is no big deal.
Rolleiflex E and F: Both were available w/ a meter and w/o. The E model to buy is the later one that has the removable focus screen. Not much difference between the two except that the F is a little heavier and possible better built. Both models were available w/ 3.5 and 2.8 lenses and the lens line ups were Xenotar or Planars. It's a toss up as to which is better. I found they were very similar, w/ possibly the Xenotar being a little contrastier. Although these are supposed to be the top of the line in lenses, I often prefer the T's Tessar for that classic look.
The later Rolleiflex models are out of my price range, but I'm sure they're great cameras.
Minolta Autocord: Light, relatively small, and has a great Rokkor lens. Good value for the money.
Rolleiflex Standrd: Very small, light, and dependable because it's so cheap. The best are the ones w/ the 1/500 top shutter speed and 3.5 Tessar. Nifty bubble level in the corner of the ground glass (every TLR should have this). Uncoated lens works extremely well for B&W.
Rolleiflex w/ uncoatd lens: These are normal sized and have a sharper lens than the earlier standards, as well as the more modern self cocking shutters. Great for B&W (like the Standard, a hood and yellow filter will make a nice improvement in your pics).
Rolleiflex T: One of my favorites. It's another Tessar, but this has one of the best ever made. Reformulated to be very sharp and contrasty. This model has the removable focusing hood, making focus screen changes a snap, and you can get to the mirror easily for an adjustment or replacement. A prism goes right on as well. Shutter and aperture work off of one lever, which takes some getting used to, but once figured out is no big deal.
Rolleiflex E and F: Both were available w/ a meter and w/o. The E model to buy is the later one that has the removable focus screen. Not much difference between the two except that the F is a little heavier and possible better built. Both models were available w/ 3.5 and 2.8 lenses and the lens line ups were Xenotar or Planars. It's a toss up as to which is better. I found they were very similar, w/ possibly the Xenotar being a little contrastier. Although these are supposed to be the top of the line in lenses, I often prefer the T's Tessar for that classic look.
The later Rolleiflex models are out of my price range, but I'm sure they're great cameras.
Brian Legge
Veteran
I haven't owned a modern Rolleiflex but have used an Rolleicord, Autocord and Yashica 124.
I've only used one of each, but my experiences match what people have said above. The shots from all three cameras looked decent to my undiscerning eye.
My preference is largely based on how reliable the cameras are and the handling. All of them have had some sort of work needed (the Yashica had winding/cocking problems, the Rollei slow shutter speed issues and the Autocord had oil in the shutter blades - the Rolleicord is the only camera I haven't worked on).
Working on the Yashicas internals made me much less excited about the camera as it seemed destined to have more issues. It is entirely possible the other cameras have the same design and I'm just blissfully unaware, but the way the cocking catches... I almost expect the camera to grind down and start having issues again any time.
In terms of handling, I really like the lever focusing with the Autocord. I also prefer the cocking/shutter operation to that of the Rolleicord though it has grown on me over time. Both are great cameras and can be had cheaply, particularly if you don't need a mint one.
I've only used one of each, but my experiences match what people have said above. The shots from all three cameras looked decent to my undiscerning eye.
My preference is largely based on how reliable the cameras are and the handling. All of them have had some sort of work needed (the Yashica had winding/cocking problems, the Rollei slow shutter speed issues and the Autocord had oil in the shutter blades - the Rolleicord is the only camera I haven't worked on).
Working on the Yashicas internals made me much less excited about the camera as it seemed destined to have more issues. It is entirely possible the other cameras have the same design and I'm just blissfully unaware, but the way the cocking catches... I almost expect the camera to grind down and start having issues again any time.
In terms of handling, I really like the lever focusing with the Autocord. I also prefer the cocking/shutter operation to that of the Rolleicord though it has grown on me over time. Both are great cameras and can be had cheaply, particularly if you don't need a mint one.
RichL
Well-known
Small Primo Jr. (127) Small, well built, Topcor 4 element 2.8 viewing and taking lens, crank advance. At roughly 4-3/4 X 3-1/4 X 3-1/4 it will actually fit in a (large) coat pocket. Large Mamaya C series. Good choice of quality lens', the bellows allows it to focus quite close without additional attachments, has a variety of metered and non metered hoods. All in all one of the best cameras I've used. For day trips and wandering the city it is great. It is not however a comfortable camera on an extended hike, for instance up to the glacier in the Olympic National park.
ruby.monkey
Veteran
The Lubitel 166 has got to be one of the best for being always on one's person.
