The Ethics of Storytelling? Reconsidering Humans of New York
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ernstk
Retro Renaissance
It's a potentially interesting article but the writer really needs to go and get her head together. It's a total mish mash of conflicting, contradictory and rambling comments.
It lacks any direction or structure. I've read it three times and I still have no idea what she's trying to say.
Ernst
It lacks any direction or structure. I've read it three times and I still have no idea what she's trying to say.
Ernst
ernstk
Retro Renaissance
If that was all she had said, I agree, it would be reasonably clear but she obfuscates that comment with lots of contradictory verbiage.
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
Cringe worthy article. Maybe somebody should write an article about the ethics of a post-grad feigning concern over subjects that they seem to have no real experience with, whether it be being poor or taking pictures. The last thing the world needs is some rich, callow, youth telling everybody else how the world works, because they read a couple books and spent a lot of money. Let readers take from the photos and stories what they will. Not everybody has to be preaching and spreading some sort of an agenda, constantly, ad nauseum. It's not on the reporter/photographer to hold everybody's hands and spoon feed them a message.
Charlie Lemay
Well-known
The promise of Photography, in fact art making in general, is not immitation, documentatin (which leads to performance), or voyeurism. It has always been, and will always be, the discovery and sharing of the artist's unique personal vision. The fact that reality TV makes tons of money, does not mean it is the best use of television, or our time. There can be no wealth without exploitation.
bonatto
looking out
There's a lot to be critical about on what seems to be a weak opinion piece. I would expect a postgrad student to be a bit less normative in their writing, but there are students and there are students.
"For example, Stanton's photographic series devoted to the exploration of stories of prisoners in New York seemed like an exposition on human suffering created solely for publicity, rather than empathy. With no regard for traditional journalistic ethics, Stanton provides a voyeuristic glimpse into the lives of byproducts of an inherently unjust prison system - a way to evoke empathy and ethical questions without responsibility.
Stanton never claims to be an informed, unbiased news source. However, his storytelling has legitimate, tangible effects. He is shaping opinions; creating a space for public dialogue. He is prompting Americans to think, moreover, about the implications of the prison system; but he is doing this without much regard for policy change or reified effects.
This is important work. But is it Stanton's to do? Is his page now speaking for others? And is he ready, moreover, to assume the responsibility of the weight of these stories?"
"For example, Stanton's photographic series devoted to the exploration of stories of prisoners in New York seemed like an exposition on human suffering created solely for publicity, rather than empathy. With no regard for traditional journalistic ethics, Stanton provides a voyeuristic glimpse into the lives of byproducts of an inherently unjust prison system - a way to evoke empathy and ethical questions without responsibility.
Stanton never claims to be an informed, unbiased news source. However, his storytelling has legitimate, tangible effects. He is shaping opinions; creating a space for public dialogue. He is prompting Americans to think, moreover, about the implications of the prison system; but he is doing this without much regard for policy change or reified effects.
This is important work. But is it Stanton's to do? Is his page now speaking for others? And is he ready, moreover, to assume the responsibility of the weight of these stories?"
J
jojoman2
Guest
There are many critiques in this line of reasoning, this one falls pretty flat. It is entirely unoriginal in content, but because it's about HONY, I'm finding it now on RFF.
I'm not a fan of Stanton's photography, but I do think the stories he accesses are remarkable. Admittedly I prefer photographs that are more spontaneous, so I don't consume much of his work. I would be curious to know how much he edits his stories, and how much authorship he takes in the final paragraphs he posts alongside his pictures. I think Stanton does a great service to New York by promoting compassion through his work, and articles like this discourage young photographers from even trying.
I'm not a fan of Stanton's photography, but I do think the stories he accesses are remarkable. Admittedly I prefer photographs that are more spontaneous, so I don't consume much of his work. I would be curious to know how much he edits his stories, and how much authorship he takes in the final paragraphs he posts alongside his pictures. I think Stanton does a great service to New York by promoting compassion through his work, and articles like this discourage young photographers from even trying.
zauhar
Veteran
It is a pleasure to encounter the word 'reified', which I have not seen since I was an undergraduate.
That said, this is the worst sort of pedantic academic discourse. Every single statement is followed by implicit parentheses and an antithetical idea. 'Obfuscation' at its finest. And yet the nagging feeling that she is 'troubled' by something persists til the end.
I would suggest that the young lady do exactly what she proposes - give people a voice and use it as the foundation for engaged political activity, and at the same time cook up a system of 'compensation' for the people she features. A heady project for a grad student, I imagine a doctoral dissertation based on it!
But would it be ETHICAL to use her position of privilege to transform the stories of the downtrodden into an advanced degree?
Randy
P.S. Read a quote from Weegee while seated on the toilet this morning that answers all the questions posed here: 'You can't be a Nice Nelly and be a photographer'
JoeV
Thin Air, Bright Sun
I am amused by the article's implication that Stanton lacks some kind of professional media credential, that would otherwise impart some objectivity and social fairness to his work. I'm sorry, but on what planet is there a fair media whose purpose is pure, unadulterated social justice? The article seems to be suggesting that us little people should just leave the reporting to the professionals.
~Joe
~Joe
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
The author is raising reasonable ethical questions, but in a kind of knee-jerk, scattershot way, without any kind of specific critique of what Stanton actually does. The truth, it seems to me, is that, if you're gonna do this kind of thing, you'd be hard pressed to do it better than he does. I think HONY is one of those projects that inspires "I could have done that" type professional envy, and that drives the creation this kind of nonspecific thinkpiece. This isn't the first one that has been written, certainly.
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
Rather less so than yours though. 😉
Obviously, only somebody as immensely privileged as Stanton could have come up with the idea of taking photographs of actual people on the street, and posting them on the internet accompanied by some blurb about the person. I think the envy angle is an accurate one for a lot of people that criticize this guy, given the nature of most of the criticisms.
jesse1dog
Light Catcher
'ernstk' post #2 - totally agree!
'zauhar' post #10 - sums up.
Surely nothing more to be said!
'zauhar' post #10 - sums up.
Surely nothing more to be said!
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Excellent ... lets get a mod to close the thread then and we can get back to discussing gear ad nauseam!
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Emily Jenab.
Exactly this. First, I stopped to look at photos.
Second, I stopped to read stories.
I should stop read stories about this guy as well. 🙂
BLKRCAT
75% Film
What exactly is HONY doing to profit/exploit people? I could only get 3/4 of the way through the article.
Is the author put off because HONY is "popular" or now has an audience?
Is the author put off because HONY is "popular" or now has an audience?
OurManInTangier
An Undesirable
It does seem to be asking an age old question but with the modern twist of the expectation of compensation.
For me I've usually failed to see why the opportunity to help provide a platform for someone who is considered, at least by the author, as vulnerable and 'voiceless' to tell their story isn't seen as a respectable and honourable trade. Is the trade in hand wringing articles or indeed honest and steely criticism of such projects any less requiring of some form of acknowledgment (or even compensation if you agree with the author) to those with stories to tell just as much as those who relay the tales?
For me I've usually failed to see why the opportunity to help provide a platform for someone who is considered, at least by the author, as vulnerable and 'voiceless' to tell their story isn't seen as a respectable and honourable trade. Is the trade in hand wringing articles or indeed honest and steely criticism of such projects any less requiring of some form of acknowledgment (or even compensation if you agree with the author) to those with stories to tell just as much as those who relay the tales?
Colin Corneau
Colin Corneau
Amen. Bullseye, really.
Of the many reasons to dislike the Professionally Concerned Activist types is the fact they never actually DO or BUILD anything...just decry others. I'd have thought most people learned when they were 6 that tearing someone else down doesn't build you up.
willie_901
Veteran
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
Hot take: Stanton is white, male, and has money. They're not sure what the problem is, but if they try looking hard enough they'll find something eventually.
Honestly: The two basic themes of the article are that:
- Stanton is only able to take photos, ask people how they're doing, and run a blog about it because of his immense privilege. (Even though most anybody could do what he did if they just thought about it and wanted to.)
- By giving people with less privilege than himself a voice on his own blog and through his own photography, he is somehow swindling them out of something. He owes everybody something more, don't you think?
jsrockit
Moderator
I think it's easy to jump to conclusions about someone's intention in Photography. If you don't like the work, then it's even easier to pick it apart. However, it seems equally as easy to jump to conclusions about the people in the photos and assume you know everything about each one's background, life, financial situation, and family. That may be the real issue... is that when you only scratch the surface of a "story" instead of fleshing it out, maybe all involved are at a disservice.
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