The future of film in the context of current economy

[navilluspm]

Clarification Film is not VHS

Clarification Film is not VHS

Just to clarify a point I made. I did not mean to compare film to VHS tapes. My point was that stores in Regina still sell cassette tapes and VHS tapes. If technology like this is still sold, which has no redeeming value over against newer technology or even older technology, then certainly film will be around which has it's advantages and far more users.

I know it compares apples to oranges, but me seeing VHS and cassette tapes every time I go into a store (and even buying the odd VHS tape) makes me think that film, which is used by far more people, will not die out any time soon.

 

[jody36]

Economy? No. What is killing film is that you can't walk into a Wal-mart, at least in my area, and buy a film camera of any kind. If consumers can't buy film cameras, they aren't going to buy film. Without all these consumers, we as niche players can't keep film alive for long. The majority of film still being sold, according to the industry, is large format film, not 35mm film. Perhaps we should all buy 4x5's! 😉

I started with digital as far as a hobby like it is now. someone on a phto critique site talked abut a rangefinder (ql17) peaked my interest. not saying there are millions of me but there are a few. Film will not die in my lifetime im 44. Just my 2 cents

 

[Fred Burton]

How much film do you shoot in a week?

 

[mh2000]

How much do I shoot? It's the same if it's digital or film... my guess is that the average is 10 frames a week. I'd be happy if it was just 2 frames that I was very happy with...

I stopped shooting digital a couple years ago, but I did make a beautiful b&w from a 2MP Elph shot once and hung it with work done by Leicas and Bronicas and it went over very well... (no one knew it was from a digital... let alone a POS P&S... go figure).

How much film do you shoot in a week?

 

[kuzano]

Just what I want to put on my "to do" list....

Just what I want to put on my "to do" list....

Let me become resident insane man and say that I bet 35mm film will be available for the rest of our lives.

On "check out" day, stop by the store and see if there is still film on the shelf.

Thanks!

 

[Fred Burton]

mh2000, the problem is that you are probably on the high end of what the average film user shoots in a week. And you shoot 14 rolls of film a year. How will the film makers stay in business?

 

[david b]

I am having a major fight with a darkroom witch and I am losing.

I have 300 rolls of APX 100 and just bought a Hasselblad 905 SWC.

But every roll of film has a problem with more than half of the negs rendered unusable.
This after developing film for years with no issues.

I am at a complete loss for what is going on.

So I am tempted by digital but spending $8000 on a camera, lens, new computer and printer is not something I want to think about right now.

Especially with my gorgeous 3 month old daughter looking into my eyes.

So, I will continue to work out the film issues and see what happens.

 

[Mark59]

What will eventually kill film is the lack of cheap, reliable analog cameras.

Yes, there are millions of used cameras out there, but they need to be serviced. Sooner or later we will run out of spare parts and qualified technicians to service them. Even if a camera is mechanically sound, it still needs to be lubricated in order to work properly, after sitting on a shelf for decades.

Ford stopped making Model T cars in 1927. I bet Ford stopped selling Model T parts soon after WWII. Today, you can quickly and easily get any part, either NOS, used or reproduction. There are also many mechanics, machinists and hobbyists who can perform any service that could possibly be needed on a Model T. Obtaining and maintaining film cameras will not be an issue long after all of us are gone.

 

[jody36]

shoot 3 to four rolls a week not gonna keep them in business by myself but add it all up.

 

[Fred Burton]

Mark, what happens, though, when the current film production line equipment breaks down? Do you think the film makers are going to invest millions of dollars to replace them? There are a lot of factors in the future of film.

 

[sepiareverb]

Mark, what happens, though, when the current film production line equipment breaks down? Do you think the film makers are going to invest millions of dollars to replace them? There are a lot of factors in the future of film.

Film base could go out of production, photosensitivity could be altered by some asteroid impact, silver could become considered so hazardous that nobody can use it, anything could happen. Efke films are made on pretty old machines that are still going. We can speculate all we want about what might happen to kill film, but I still believe I'll be shooting it for a long time.

 

[MCTuomey]

I am having a major fight with a darkroom witch and I am losing.

I have 300 rolls of APX 100 and just bought a Hasselblad 905 SWC.

But every roll of film has a problem with more than half of the negs rendered unusable.
This after developing film for years with no issues.

I am at a complete loss for what is going on.

So I am tempted by digital but spending $8000 on a camera, lens, new computer and printer is not something I want to think about right now.

Especially with my gorgeous 3 month old daughter looking into my eyes.

So, I will continue to work out the film issues and see what happens.

You could spend < $750 for some excellent digi equipment (camera and lens), David. Defer the printer (use an online service), buy an older version of elements or maybe lightroom. Use your present computer. All in, around $1000 at most. Or stay with film and, as many suggest is necessary, develop your own negatives or send them to one of the mail-in services.

There is no reason to be stymied when you have a lovely child to photograph right now ...

 

[mooge]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svitantti
There are also many more complicated mechanical machines, that people learn to repair and do repair, than mechanical cameras. Some professionals and hobbyists have learned to service their own cameras. I see no problem with new people learning to service old cameras, it is not magic. Most of those cameras are anyway pretty simple (after all).

While that may be true you are talking about a very, very, very small percentage of photographers. 99.9% of people are not going to be able to repair their own camera. Cleaning up a screwmount Leica may be relatively straightforward if you have some skill, but working on something like a Leica M that contains almost 1500 parts is a very different story.

actually, I think that number is significantly higher when it comes to FSU rangefinders...

hey, if I can fix a slow 1964 Kiev 4 and a jammed Pentax ME super with knowledge gathered from the local library and from the internet, it can't be that hard. sure, it's not for everyone (a steady hand and a good eye) but it's not terribly difficult if you want/need to learn. it takes alot of patience and practise, though...
but yes, it gets harder, and that's where it gets interesting.

and Leica M? (yeah, I want a M-2...)
http://leicaclub.net/files/leica_m2_m3_m4_basic_repair.pdf
http://leicaclub.net/files/leica_m2_service.pdf
it's all here.

but yes, we will need a new generation of fixers.

sorry for the incoherence, it's like midnight.

 

[mh2000]

All I need is just one good ISO 400 b&w film and I am still good to go! I think there will be a market for that into the near future... sure Pan F (maybe) and a number of other emulsions will vanish... but TMY, TX or Delta 400... and I'm still good. (Well, I hope BW400CN etc. hangs on for a the near term as well...)

🙂

mh2000, the problem is that you are probably on the high end of what the average film user shoots in a week. And you shoot 14 rolls of film a year. How will the film makers stay in business?

 

[Mark59]

Mark, what happens, though, when the current film production line equipment breaks down? Do you think the film makers are going to invest millions of dollars to replace them? There are a lot of factors in the future of film.

Fred, good point, that is where the risk is. I think there is a good chance that the market demand will be large enough to keep a couple of suppliers on line for the foreseeable future and beyond. Prices will go up, choices will go down. Quality may suffer as the machines wear out, but, a skilled machinist could keep an old coating machine running indefinitely.

 

[robbert]

contributing with aprox. 7 rolls of trix 135/36 a week

 

[Leica0Series]

Go on Flickr and you'll see plenty of "I shoot film" sharing groups. And, no one has mentioned the Holga, which has a stronghold in the art world. Urban Outfitters even sells Holgas (medium format and 35mm versions) and Dianas to hipsters!

 

[alinCiortea]

film shooters are dependent on single-use products, be them film, chemicals or paper, thus making them a constant market for these products.
digital shooters only need to invest when the camera breaks down or the model is too obsolete for their liking. one can only sell so many cameras from x or y model before the market is saturated. producers of digital cameras also need to constantly invest in research to keep up with the competion (meaning less actual profit)

robbert says above he shoots 7 rolls of trix a week. macodirect.de sells 35mm trix at 3.5 euro a roll. this is what my math looks like:

3.5 euro x 7 rolls x 4 weeks x 18 months (digital camera shelf-life) = 1764 euros
let's consider 12 months instead of 18. that would mean 1176 euros. now, that's the equivalent of quite a dSLR! ok, maybe one would also invest in lenses, but unlike digital bodies, lenses have a seriously improved shelf-life and reselling value.

let's also consider film camera prices on ebay... i've watched them rising in the past year and a half quite a bit. from my point of view that means two things>
1. demand for film cameras is growing, buyers being either collectors or users.
2. (old) film shooters that have decided to go digital had already done this.

that also means that the film population is at a somewhat steady balance... a few film shooters go digital every now and then, a few digital shooters go (also) film every now and then.

i'd say there's enough film demand to keep it in business.

my n00b opinion, of course 🙂

 

[Faintandfuzzy]

Let me become resident insane man and say that I bet 35mm film will be available for the rest of our lives.

I'll agree with that. I turn 40 this year. I'm certain that I'll be able to go to a good shop or online and get 35mm when I'm 60 or even 70.