L Collins
Well-known
No offense, but you're completely missing the point.
The Great Digital Swindle...
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No offense, but you're completely missing the point.
YYV_146
Well-known
With all due respect, the advantage is still there. Technology haven't quite gotten to the point where I could meter at the light and pull up shadows to my heart's content, nor has 135 sensors truly caught up with larger size film in terms of detail and tonality. When there is more dynamic range on hand people would want to push their files harder. The digital age also demands higher resolution and better quality work.
A Phase One back is about $20,000, the most expensive 135 digital camera less than half that. The D800E is exciting because it gets dangerously close to that Phase One at $3,000, and the A7r is exciting because it makes that level of IQ pocketable. But there is much room for improvement on both cameras - and hopefully we will see an A9 or D900E that is even better. As long as people are willing to pay for progress, I'm happy.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
I don't think we're arguing. What I'm talking about is buying things where there's a genuine advantage rather than a tiny incremental marketing-led advantage, let along buying something merely because it's new.
Cheers,
R.
uhoh7
Veteran
there's a a lot of that going around, lol
perhaps a genuine question is which of the new cameras is offering a big jump in tech--enough to justify some excitement.
I rarely buy cameras---lenses, well I stopped after 60 or so.
Last digital I bought was two years ago, a nearly identical upgrade to my previous, except it could take an EVF, was much quieter, and had a touch screen (nice for MF).
However I hate the APS-C crop.
FF has not been a practical option for me until now.
I'm excited. Am I stupid?
jsrockit
Moderator
Ok, let's relax and remember that we are just discussing cameras.
goamules
Well-known
No, I agree, that is what drives most consumerism. I guess I need more coffee.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Highlight 2: Not as far as I am concerned: FF is a big advantage in my book.
Highlight 1: Precisely.
Your previous upgrade? Sounds reasonable: a quieter camera with an EVF sounds like a good idea. As you imply, the question really is when you think, "What ARE they getting excited about?" Some people do seem to get very excited about things that don't matter much.
Cheers,
R.
uhoh7
Veteran
Whew! 🙂
Many arguments in these threads are at root semantics---we read into each others posts things which are not really intended, and of course, when others do it to us we are outraged: :bang:
You use the word "stupid" and we all assume you are talking about us, LOL
Then of course there's Keith. 😱
just kidding 🙂
willie_901
Veteran
I was going to buy one. But since the support for manual focusing is lacking, I will spend the money on travel. Compared to my D700 bodies the sensor is better and it does have a 100% finder. But these are not worth the ~ $1,700 I'd have to spend (after selling a D700). for a DF.
I guess I should be grateful to Nikon.
I'm selling all by AI/AIS glass now. If one of my D700s died or disappeared, I'd buy a used D700 from KEH to replace it.
Addy101
Well-known
Well, there was the Sony A900/A850 that felt very much like the Minolta Dynax 9/Maxxum 9. Better in some respects, less in others - but as a package it was and is a great picture taking machine. To bad so many were obsessed with their D700's and 5DII that they didn't notice it....
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
L Collins
Well-known
No, of course not. You're entitled to want what you want. I certainly do.
I just think that we need to keep in mind the distinction between a "want" and a "need.'
Robert Frank may have "wanted" a better camera, but he certainly didn't "need" one to make his exceptional images, images that would be laughed off of most gearhead forums as being technically terrible. but, of course, techinal merit is the fallback position of those without anything to say.
Wburgess
Established
Let the gadget hungry buy new cameras every 3 months...
It keeps the companies alive.
Meanwhile I'll be out taking photographs.
It keeps the companies alive.
Meanwhile I'll be out taking photographs.
Sejanus.Aelianus
Veteran
We should all recognise that the benefits we enjoy depend largely on industrialisation and consumerism is an enormously important part of the process.
Just consider that it's the consumers who keep the cost of cameras as low as they are. We owe them a vote of gratitude, rather than sneers.
Just consider that it's the consumers who keep the cost of cameras as low as they are. We owe them a vote of gratitude, rather than sneers.
uhoh7
Veteran
I'm a serious tightwad generally, but I do enjoy a cheap toy here and there 🙂
So, I must plead guilty to the hypocrisy you describe. 😱
Pioneer
Veteran
We all want to get better, faster; and the new digital tools continually promise to grant that wish. It is relatively easy to learn how to use the new tool but to really master that tool takes a lot of work...and time. Usually more time than we want to devote. That is one reason that many pros, not all of course but Capa was one, use the same camera for a long time.
So when the next new digital tool comes out and promises more megapixels, and higher usable ISO, we jump on it. This will fix things for us. There are already many of us who believe that the immediacy of the digital age has helped improve us as photographers much faster then would have occurred with film. To some respect that is true, but only with the technique, it still doesn't help improve our vision any quicker.
Now the market is aging, and as some have said, people begin to slow down and step off the marketing merry-go-round as it becomes obvious that they probably are not going to be the next HCB. We have taken some nice shots and spent those hours in front of a computer to pimp and dress the picture just right. But the only place we get recognition is on Flickr, or our favorite forum, so we begin to tire of the work required. Besides, our kids are gone and we really are not that interested in taking pictures of flowers or hummingbirds, and our last digital camera was big, heavy and expensive. Even worse, it didn't improve our pictures much and it took forever to learn how to use it.
So now we see cameras that play to the older buyer's faulty memory of how things used to be. The Olympus Pen was one of the first to exploit this and the trend is just expanding. "Look at this, now you can feel like you are packing your old camera but have even better dynamic range then ever." It does look nice and so we buy it. And as a plus, it is way lighter than that old Nikon F to pander to your lower tolerance for packing too much weight.
Obviously there are many things that sustain a materialistic culture such as is occurring today. It would take a book to cover it all. But, at some point it does have to stop, or at least slow down dramatically. Nothing continues to expand forever.
The improvements keep coming but they become smaller and harder to see; and certainly more expensive. I don't know if anyone really knows for sure but that slow down may have already started.
So when the next new digital tool comes out and promises more megapixels, and higher usable ISO, we jump on it. This will fix things for us. There are already many of us who believe that the immediacy of the digital age has helped improve us as photographers much faster then would have occurred with film. To some respect that is true, but only with the technique, it still doesn't help improve our vision any quicker.
Now the market is aging, and as some have said, people begin to slow down and step off the marketing merry-go-round as it becomes obvious that they probably are not going to be the next HCB. We have taken some nice shots and spent those hours in front of a computer to pimp and dress the picture just right. But the only place we get recognition is on Flickr, or our favorite forum, so we begin to tire of the work required. Besides, our kids are gone and we really are not that interested in taking pictures of flowers or hummingbirds, and our last digital camera was big, heavy and expensive. Even worse, it didn't improve our pictures much and it took forever to learn how to use it.
So now we see cameras that play to the older buyer's faulty memory of how things used to be. The Olympus Pen was one of the first to exploit this and the trend is just expanding. "Look at this, now you can feel like you are packing your old camera but have even better dynamic range then ever." It does look nice and so we buy it. And as a plus, it is way lighter than that old Nikon F to pander to your lower tolerance for packing too much weight.
Obviously there are many things that sustain a materialistic culture such as is occurring today. It would take a book to cover it all. But, at some point it does have to stop, or at least slow down dramatically. Nothing continues to expand forever.
The improvements keep coming but they become smaller and harder to see; and certainly more expensive. I don't know if anyone really knows for sure but that slow down may have already started.
Sparrow
Veteran
I din't necessarily subscribe to this perpetual development model ... there is a limit to the capabilities of the wheel whoever manufactures it, it's a mature technology ... perhaps that's what is happening to cameras?
Jockos
Well-known
Actually when the HCB exhibition was at Fotografiska here in Stockholm, I felt that a better medium would have increased the impact of the pictures tremendously; content aside, the large prints looked like **** up close to be honest.
Wburgess
Established
Philistine
Jockos
Well-known
You know, like seeing the actual faces of the children in the bombed ruins, instead of grainy smudges.....
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