The Greatest Kiev News Since WWII: .....

[ruben]

Russ Pinchbeck has introduced, quite long ago, a new section to his Kiev Survival Site, dealing with re-activating the Kiev's light meters. So first go there for a glance:
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/exposure%20meter.html



And afterwards start thinking with me about the possible implications:

1a) A metered Kiev, whose meter doesn't work, is a sort of liability, few of us would like to have. But a metered Kiev which we at home can make its meter work, becomes perhaps more interesting than a non-metered one. As in the old days.

1) Non-metered Kievs are usually more expensive (condition taken into account) as no one likes the bulk of a meter that most of the chances doesn't work.

But if upon Russ indications we can activate those meters, then we will be buying cheap something of higher value, untill the bears awake.

2) For the same reason of shortage of non-metered Kievs, non metered Kievs we see at eBay are noticeably Frankenstein versions with whatever can be collated together.

On the other hand, metered Kievs have not suffered the same abuse.

3) If we manage indeed to re-activate the meters, then we can say that more or less half of the Kiev stock, kept as a sort of hardly saleable reserve, come back to the forefront. Or if you like it in more dramatic words, if indeed we succeed in the re-activation, the best of the Kievs may be not behind but before us.

A sort of Stalingrad turn around of destiny ?
Russ, we love you.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[Peter_Jones]

I used the KSS site to help sort out the meter on my Kiev (just needed the contacts cleaning) , while another (from Scotforthlad - thanks Brian) with a totally unservicable meter but now fully functioning shutter, awaits "Frankenstein" treatment and "pimped" leather covering. 🙂 Best of both worlds ?

 

[Paul T.]

Russ is not only a star, he is also improving. His presentation, always good, is even clearer, and those terse descriptions with the dry humour are even more helpful and entertaining. I also approve the fact that he uses the word bugger in the English style.

 

[oftheherd]

Thanks for the heads up Ruben. I may get brave myself. Any idea what his source is for the new cells?

 

[ruben]

Thanks for the heads up Ruben. I may get brave myself. Any idea what his source is for the new cells?

As a matter of fact I purchased two of them some year ago from Oleg Khlayavin. Like everything else I assume there are supplyies here and there. If I am not wrong, Russ advices to dismount the cells from newer Feds.

Another source may be the latest Kiev models, whose sellers say "the meter responds to light but I cannot guarantee the accuracy". Older kievs 4 responding to light are still on their beds.

What worryies me most of all is the issue of the "potentiometer cell" and what can we do about it.

It would be great if any friend here could explain to me what the task of a carbon potentiometer is, and how they are built to perform their task. Thus for example I don't understand why can't we simply reverse it, making its basis the top - but this is only part of my question what exactly this piece is for. The only thing I can imagine, if I am right at all, is that it must transmit electricity in a gradual way according to its position relatively to the wires.

By the way, there is another small help we can give our Kiev meters and it is that when we dis-assemble the sellenium cell compound, to give a good cleaning to the plastic chip protecting it, with simple kitchen soap and a teeth brush. The blackened sides we see there will fade - they are not part of the meter.

Anyway, let's this thread develope and more knowledgeable folks will come in.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[spiderfrank]

I think it should be possible to drill one more hole on the potentiometer, and mount it upside-down, eventually registering the position of the sliding contact in order to have the right curve. The result should be a "like-new" component...

Franco

 

[Prosaic]

...

A sort of Stalingrad turn around of destiny ?
Russ, we love you.

Cheers,
Ruben

Ruben, just out of curiosity: Is your enthusiasm for russian rangefinders related to your dislike of German-made products?

 

[ruben]

Ruben, just out of curiosity: Is your enthusiasm for russian rangefinders related to your dislike of German-made products?

I do not have any dislike of any German product(*), or of the German people, nor I attribute the cathastrophe of WWII to any racial root.

Furthermore there is nothing more inspiring about the human spirit than the heroic Germans who amidst the Nazi zunami still found the guts to oppose it, some of them up to death. Nazi non Jewish disidents were the first to fill the first concentration camp

Furthermore, although Nazism got a big popular support, like any cathastrophic mesianic prophecy may gain it in any country of the world, resistance to Nazism within Germany was strong enough to oblige Nazi leadership to maintain an absolute regime of terror within Germany.

Zeiss company has been all the way The company behind optic development along all the 20th century.

Leica cameras have been flesh and blood of 20th century photography, being the choice of many many of the best photographers. No other camera had achieved such a status.

Long ago I had a strong argument agains Contax users at RFF, but it did not involved the Contax camera per se, but what I wrongly perceived at the time as a snobish attitude by their holders. It was a wrong perception of people, it had nothing to do with the camera.

Zeiss Contax cameras are in every sense the mother and father of the Kievs. There could not be any Kiev camera without Zeiss making their Contax. Zeiss company existed far before the Nazi regime, and continued up to day, when the danger of Nazism in Germany or Europe is reduced to ashes.

The love for SOME Soviet made products, as welll as the Soviet leading role in the defeat of Fascism during WWII, is not to be celebrated as a racial or national "Russian" victory, but first of all as the historyc defeat of a specific tyranic regime, who at the time before the start of WWII, was officially widespread about almost half of Europe, if we don't split Europe along racial or national lines, and even within each European nation.

Racial or national hate is not related to any specific kind of people, nor any kind is born vascinated against it. One example of this is the contradicting fact that many of the forces fighting during WWII against Germany, still maintained segregating deviations within themselves. Even victimyzed nations maintained their own old racialist moods at the same time of Nazi occupation Perhaps, worst of all is the cathatrophe Israeli Government has delivered to the Palestinians in Gaza Strip, while claiming to represent the vyctims of the Holocaust.

Mankind is still very much attached to race and nation, i,e, tribe, rather than to the substance beyond the form.

As a fresh example of this, you can see your own logics, implicating that if I love a "Russian" rangefinders, it must involve the hate of their German counterpart.

Cheers,
Ruben

(*) With due exception of the most of Gossen light meters, whose overinformative scales are not of my personal test. Yet among Gossen lightmeters there is a genious one: the Pilot ultracompact hot shoe mount meter. If Pilot selenium cells were still working they would win over whatever compact meter designed afterwards.

 

[Paul T.]

getting more OT...

Ruben, if you haven't read Victor Klemperer's diaries, you should do. He was a Jewish college lecturer in Dresden. THe book is a great work of literature, he is a wonderful chronicler of day-to-day life like Pepys, he writes about everyday things like 'political' problems at work (which later turn out to be really political), problems with his new-fangled electric cooker... and meanwhile these dark shadows are creeping in from the back of the stage. He and many of this friends worked at the Zeiss factory.

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

I do not have any dislike of any German product, or of the German people, nor I attribute the cathastrophe of WWII to any racial root.

Furthermore there is nothing more inspiring about the human spirit than the heroic Germans who amidst the Nazi zunami still found the guts to oppose it, some of them up to death. Nazi non Jewish disidents were the first to fill the first concentration camp

Furthermore, although Nazism got a big popular support, like any cathastrophic mesianic prophecy may gain it in any country of the world, resistance to Nazism within Germany was strong enough to oblige Nazi leadership to maintain an absolute regime of terror within Germany.

Zeiss company has been all the way The company behind optic development along all the 20th century.

Leica cameras have been flesh and blood of 20th century photography, being the choice of many many of the best photographers. No other camera had achieved such a status.

Long ago I had a strong argument agains Contax users at RFF, but it did not involved the Contax camera per se, but what I wrongly perceived at the time as a snobish attitude by their holders. It was a wrong perception of people, it had nothing to do with the camera.

Zeiss Contax cameras are in every sense the mother and father of the Kievs. There could not be any Kiev camera without Zeiss making their Contax. Zeiss company existed far before the Nazi regime, and continued up to day, when the danger of Nazism in Germany or Europe is reduced to ashes.

The love for Soviet made products, as welll as the Soviet leading role in the defeat of Fascism during WWII, is not to be celebrated as a racial or national victory, but first of all as the historyc defeat of a specific tyranic regime, who at the time before the start of WWII, was officially widespread about almost half of Europe, if we don't split Europe along racial or national lines, and even within each European nation.

Racial or national hate is not related to any specific kind of people, nor any kind is born vascinated against it. As a fresh example of this, you can see your own logics, implicating that if I love a Soviet (or Russian) product it must involve the hate of its German counterpart.

Cheers,
Ruben

Is that a NO? 😉

 

[Spider67]

A bit OT Leitz during the Nazi years

A bit OT Leitz during the Nazi years

A guy from New York who was studying to become a Rabbi liked Leicas very much. So he started to research about the role of Leitz in WWII it turned out that he himself was among the reppressed ones. (forgot the link anyway the article was in German)
He helped his staffmembers of jewish faith emigrate to the USA by sending them on work assignments to the American Leitz subsidiary. Why do I write of "jewish faith" and not Jews. Because they felt and they were Germans themselves. Many of them were patriots. And as many people still say "Jews and Germans" even when they speak of nowadays ...that divison is Hitlers last success.
Back to Leitz: His wife was arrested by the Gestapo and he literally had to beg for her release, After the war it turned out that his family had been on a deathlist for political opponents planned to be killed after the war.
he did not brag with what he had done......as there were still enough people in the after war years who would have considered that as betrayal
Cheers from Vienna the city of strudel!
Des

 

[newspaperguy]

Reuben correctly noted earlier, "Zeiss Contax cameras are in every sense the mother and father of the Kievs."

Indeed, Peter Hennig, well known as a Contax historian, mentions being told,"“This is not a Soviet camera - it is a German camera, made in the Soviet Union”

Hennig agrees, writing, "As a matter of fact, by these few words, he stated the essence of the origin of this camera."

You can read the full story on our friend's site: http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/zconrfKiev.htm

 

[Gumby]

Wow... this is the first "Ruben post" (item #8) that I've found to be perfectly clear, concise and coherent. I'm truly impressed! 🙂

The only head-scratching I'm doing is about the Gossen's "overly informative" meters. I still can't understand what people seem to think is so complicated about them. 😱

 

[ruben]

..............The only head-scratching I'm doing is about the Gossen's "overly informative" meters. I still can't understand what people seem to think is so complicated about them. 😱

No, they are not "so complicated" at all if your phtoto style allows you a "take your time for your light meter too".

One thing is to take your time for your fully manual camera, yes we can.

Another thing is to take your time for your composition, yes we can.

A third thing is to take your time for interpreting the reading of of your light meter, yes we can.

However a fourth thing is to take your time too to understand what the hell your meter is showing, due to the worst ever graphic scales design, further messed with a double scale of dots, signaling f/stops - one for the post war way (1/60 dot, for example) and the other for the pre-war way (1/50 dot, a la Contax/Kiev). Yes we can, but we don't want.

This is not to say that the meters are unaccurate. They are just a mess to read. The photographer whose subject are trees or buildings will enjoy Gossen meters and also eat his sandwich. No problem.

Gossen's contempt to their clients finds its climax, in declining to graphically distinguish the f/stop scale from the speeds scale, by making one of them in black background with white numbers, and the other vice versa.

In direct contrast, on the same circular space, the Weston Master meters excell for their user friendly graphic scale design, as well as for their unique compensation marks, that for some reason Gossen never swallowed its pride and copyied on behalf of Gossen users

Now I could attach for comparizon, both the classic circular top cast of the Gossen light meters and that of the Westons. I will spare it just in order not to further embarass Gossen company.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[ruben]

Hi Highway 61,

Once, long ago, I tryied to order cells for Kiev cameras, but as far as I remember I couldn't detail them what exactly do I want, due to my absolute ignorancy of either electricity or whatever.

The problem, as far as I remember, is that it is upon you to understand what do you want according to their understanding. They also rejected my offer to ship them a body as an example for a multi cells orders.

Now what was most interesting of all is that they didn't reject the order if specifyied according to their wish.

So, to cut it short, could you make a great favour to many of us, perhaps Contax users included, and give us the right specifications for a megatron order of a Kiev or Contax cell ?

Or if it makes it easier for your, enter negotiations with them, so you may understand at the end what they want from us, as I am afraid it is not so simple, purchase as sell and ship it to me - I will refund you up to the last Brittish penny.

And if you could do the same for those ultracompact Pilot meters - Wow !

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[ruben]

I think it should be possible to drill one more hole on the potentiometer, and mount it upside-down, eventually registering the position of the sliding contact in order to have the right curve. The result should be a "like-new" component...

Franco

Hi Franco,

Kindly don't see it as a kind of teasing, but as you seem to have some knowledge of electricity, would you mind to volunteer to try your idea ? 🙂

Once I tryied it, just out of intuition, but failed at the stage of separating the potentiometer cell from its basis. So when further pushing I broke the cell and once the cell is broken I doesn't accept any kind of fixing.

Since I don't have any kind of electric knowledge, I have not the slightest idea which solvents the potentiometer may accept to dilute the fixing gum below it.

As you understand, potentiomenter cell messed means the camera is gone. So I payed my debt to Kiev research once. Now it is the turn of younger and bolder fellows to contribute in this specific Russian roullete field.🙂

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[Peter_Jones]

I will take some measurements, (I used to work in electronics but have forgotten much) and have a root through my box of bits tonight.

 

[Peter_Jones]

Okay, here goes.

The carbon track cannot be reversed 🙁 as it is only on one side of an insulating plastic base. Resistance (inpedence) appears to be 25K ohms total from screw hole to end of carbon track. (the example I tested had "high spots" approx 225 degrees from screw hole giving readings of over 40Kohms, indicating a problem.) As per Kiev Survival Site, it is non-linear having an exponential curve (imagine a graph of Ohms against Degrees from start point, it will look like a quarter-circle)

Physical dimensions - overall thickness is approx 1mm, width of carbon track is approx 3mm,(from the outside edge of the overall diameter), the carbon track covers approx 300 deg, centre hole dia is approx 15mm, overall dia is approx 28mm, . That gives a ballpark figure to start from, the old unit can be used as a template for drill holes and cutouts.

Now the tricky bit - finding a source of replacements.

 

[ruben]

What they need to know is the shape/size/thickness of the cell you want, and to know where you want the ground and + contacts tracks fitted and that's all.

So if you want a replacement cell for a dead cell you have to order a cell similar to the one you want to replace. And that's it.

A selenium cell will produce a certain amount of voltage once exposed to light. Larger cells will produce higher voltages than smaller ones when exposed to a the same amount of light. That's why all selenium cells don't have the same size (more selenium on larger cells, less selenium on smaller ones).

Hi Highway 61,

Would you mind to order such a cell for yourself that I will pay for you from my Paypal account ? Showing here how have you expressed the technical data in A REAL ORDERTHEY understand and accept will be priceless for me.

=============
As for your above quoted message, kindly let me know if I have understood you right:

a) The voltage of selenium cells change only according to size. Therefore knowing the right size is what matters most.

b) But the thickness of the cell remains unclear to me since as far as I remember at one side ("the front") there is the cell, and at the other side ("the back") there is a metalic skeleton. Since I couldn't separate them I remain without knowing one of the three measurements of the cell.

c) Where do we want the ground and + contacts ?


Cheers,
Ruben

 

[KoNickon]

Regarding the Luna-Pro, if I haven't used it in a while I do need to break out the instruction manual to remind me which scale and indicator I should be reading. The Luna-Six is somewhat simplified.