the joy of photography

I can't help it.

What happens to the wise-ass that sneaks around when everyone has there eyes closed, relaxing, and then yanks the chair out from under them...
 
Dave, run. You have been nominated for European Time Zone moderator. By Roger.

You can thank him later.

The Joy of Photography Forums.
 
Dave Wilkinson said:
hey!...naughty!...naughty! - you will be categorised with me!
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Dear Dave,

You mean you don't WANT to be our newest mod...?

Cheers,

R. (Old rocker. Remember the rocker slogan: FLY THE FLAG: HANG A MOD. This won't mean much to American readers but Rockers or Grease rode motorcycles and Mods rode hairdryers, AKA scooters, and had the Union Jack on their parkas. Oh, dear, now I have to explain parkas, combat jackets and greasy leather jackets. On second thoughts, forget it: too culturally specific.)
 
Roger Hicks said:
Dear Dave,

You mean you don't WANT to be our newest mod...?

Cheers,

R. (Old rocker. Remember the rocker slogan: FLY THE FLAG: HANG A MOD. This won't mean much to American readers but Rockers or Grease rode motorcycles and Mods rode hairdryers, AKA scooters, and had the Union Jack on their parkas. Oh, dear, now I have to explain parkas, combat jackets and greasy leather jackets. On second thoughts, forget it: too culturally specific.)
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Hairdryers - Roger?....at the risk of maybe causing more upset to viewers - around here, we called them poof chariots! - ( you can explain that one! )
 
Moderator Job on RFF.

picture.php
 
Roger Hicks said:
Dear Michael,

(Highlight) I think you're right -- sort of -- but this suggests to me that Frances is right about Americans taking offence more easily: to borrow a boxing metaphor, if you live among people with glass jaws, you have to pull your punches, or not punch at all.

The big problem is that if you come from a different culture, you may not know what is going to offend someone, and even if you do, you may feel in an international forum that all cultures have equal rights to live by their own norms instead of submitting to the standards of the thinnest-skinned, regardless of where the thin-skinned come from.

A big question is what constitutes a 'quiet time'. If I didn't get a decent-sized chunk of intellectual stimulation from RFF, I'd not bother to belong to the forum. That's not calling you names, or denigrating what you get from the forum; just pointing out that a 'quiet time' of arguing constructively (and with any luck learning something) is, for me, a pleasure.
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Dear David

My comment about American politness was based on working within an American company whilst being employed by Her Majesty.

Dear Roger
You make a good point re quite time. I suppose that for me its a concious decision to take that point of view for a few reasons.(Given my Irish genetics I can get as heated as the next man :))
I find this web form of communication limiting and ,as prev noted prone to misunderstandings.I don`t feel able enough to circumvent that and feel somewhat disadvantaged as a result.
Its the Dennis Thatcher defence. "Better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you`re a fool than open it and confirm that you are." :)
I do however enjoy and learn from some of those off topic threads. The recent one that veered off into a discusion about health care was very interesting.
Perhaps I should review my stance.

Michael
 
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Michael Markey said:
(Given my Irish genetics I can get as heated as the next man :))
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Dear Michael,

You're no doubt aware of the old (or possibly Ould) Irish question, "Is this a private fight, or can anybody join in?"

A Celt often finds it hard to resist finding out, "What would happen if I..."

(As a young man I had [very] dark red hair and a red-and-gold beard. They say that Goedelic and Brythonic Celts are distinguished merely by language but I'm an unashamed Goedelic [Cornish] racist here.)

Edit: and my mother died in 1974 but taught me, "It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and be known for one."

Cheers,

R.
 
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Roger Hicks said:
Dear Michael,

(As a young man I had [very] dark red hair and a red-and-gold beard. They say that Goedelic and Brythonic Celts are distinguished merely by language but I'm an unashamed Goedelic [Cornish] racist here.)


Cheers,

R.
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Dear Roger

Now that would be a picture worth seeing . Cornwall... now I understand :)

Best
Michael
 
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back alley said:
A WORD OR 2 ABOUT COMMUNICATION...

i used to teach classes in communication and problem solving, one of the first 'lessons' i did involved having the people in class sit back, eyes closed and think of their favourite, most comfortable 'chair'.
i asked that they just relax and 'see' the chair and think about how it felt to sit comfortably in it.
afterwards we would have a discussion about our chairs and how the single word chair had many meanings for each of us. i had them describe their chairs to the class. there were rocking chairs, leather chairs, high back chairs, mushy, sink into the cushion chairs...you get the idea.
imagine us having a discussion here about our favourite chair, each having our own vision about what that chair was like.
10 or 20 of us with maybe 5 to 10 to 20 differing 'chairs' but each of us thinking that we 'knew' what the other was talking about becuase we each knew what a chair was.

this is a simple excersize that shows just how easy it is to misunderstand each other while using the same words...
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One doesn't often see joe using capitals ... perhaps we should concider why he did it here do you think?

Dave and Roger; there were many things wrong with the 60s, the Shangri-Las were among them
 
Roger Hicks said:
Dear Dave,

You mean you don't WANT to be our newest mod...?

.)
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Having just had my regular evening pipeful of 'Dark Irish Flake', glass of 'Jack', and read this weeks AP - I'm feeling mellow and will attempt to be totally serious! (honest!). Over the last year I have been making what seems to have been a slow recovery back to health, after my cardiac problems. A few months ago - pushing a vacuum cleaner around the house was an effort, and I've spent a frustrating amount of time 'just resting' between small jobs, and consequently spending a lot of (enjoyable) time on this forum, now feeling almost like new I feel that I have been given another chance in life. As the summer approaches, I have all the time I want to get out and about with my cameras, (my dear wife loves her job still-nursing) and when I'm not out shooting, I will be carving hunks of brass and bronze into model engine parts!. So shortly I shall be spending a lot less time on the PC!.
Hell! - a roundabout way of answering a 'tongue in cheek' question - that would never be asked - anyway!.....this Jack Daniels is stronger than I thought! :D
Cheers, Dave.
 
Dave Wilkinson said:
Having just had my regular evening pipeful of 'Dark Irish Flake', glass of 'Jack', and read this weeks AP - I'm feeling mellow and will attempt to be totally serious! (honest!). Over the last year I have been making what seems to have been a slow recovery back to health, after my cardiac problems. A few months ago - pushing a vacuum cleaner around the house was an effort, and I've spent a frustrating amount of time 'just resting' between small jobs, and consequently spending a lot of (enjoyable) time on this forum, now feeling almost like new I feel that I have been given another chance in life. As the summer approaches, I have all the time I want to get out and about with my cameras, (my dear wife loves her job still-nursing) and when I'm not out shooting, I will be carving hunks of brass and bronze into model engine parts!. So shortly I shall be spending a lot less time on the PC!.
Hell! - a roundabout way of answering a 'tongue in cheek' question - that would never be asked - anyway!.....this Jack Daniels is stronger than I thought! :D
Cheers, Dave.
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Dear Dave,

Well, I suspect that Back Alley and Rover will take it in the right spirit if I say that you ain't stupid enough to take on a job that could NEVER pay enough and ALWAYS requires too much work. Especially if I add that if appreciation and respect were hard currency, they'd be millionaires.

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Well, yes, exactly; which is why I threw the generalization straight back. I've driven across the USA E-W and W-E eight times (counting each one-way journey as a trip, though I'd need to check that it wasn't 7 or 9) and Frances lived in New York State until 17 and California from 17-35. That's apart from our research on Battlefields of the Civil War.

As Frances pointed out, calling Europeans 'more arrogant and willing to insult people' is itself something of an arrogant insult, and rather supports my argument that people can be arrogant and insulting without realizing that someone from another culture might see it as such.

Yes, you can take 'thinner skinned' as an insult too, but I didn't see it that way, and nor did Frances -- and she's lived about 40 years in the USA and about 20 in Europe. 'All generalizations are dangerous, including this one', but I don't see it as an unrealistic generalization that different cultures have dfferent sensibilities.

Cheers,

R.
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Wow... the twists and turns that can take place in an RFF thread in a mere 8 hours!

Roger,

You, or more correctly Frances, first made the generalization that Americans are more likely to take offense than Europeans - I tried to point out, via another generalization, that an anecdotal analysis by one person is of no more value than that of another when considered in the larger context.

And please read again, I did not "call Europeans" anything. I was illustrating by example that different conclusions can and will be drawn to account for a single fact or effect (in this example: Americans are the nationality most offended). Self bias helps dictate whether we conclude that they are too thin skinned, or whether they are being insulted by more rude counterparts, or something altogether different. This self bias may be a result of conditioning by our cultural norms and rules, or by the bias passed along by the particular media one is exposed to, or the desire to be supportive of one's spouse, etc., etc. So you can't always chalk up a persons negative reaction to rude or borderline comments as simply their being thin-skinned or "touchy"; a thoughtful person will consider their contribution to the situation, accept ownership and adjust.

I know that continuing to debate the situation will not result in a conversion of one us to the other's side - in this discussion. But at least we can put our positions forth fairly constructively.

Though I admit if I truly were a bit more thin-skinned I might take exception to being the only member you don't address as "Dear" !
 
gdi said:
Wow... the twists and turns that can take place in an RFF thread in a mere 8 hours!

Roger,

You, or more correctly Frances, first made the generalization that Americans are more likely to take offense than Europeans - I tried to point out, via another generalization, that an anecdotal analysis by one person is of no more value than that of another when considered in the larger context.

And please read again, I did not "call Europeans" anything. I was illustrating by example that different conclusions can and will be drawn to account for a single fact or effect (in this example: Americans are the nationality most offended). Self bias helps dictate whether we conclude that they are too thin skinned, or whether they are being insulted by more rude counterparts, or something altogether different. This self bias may be a result of conditioning by our cultural norms and rules, or by the bias passed along by the particular media one is exposed to, or the desire to be supportive of one's spouse, etc., etc. So you can't always chalk up a persons negative reaction to rude or borderline comments as simply their being thin-skinned or "touchy"; a thoughtful person will consider their contribution to the situation, accept ownership and adjust.

I know that continuing to debate the situation will not result in a conversion of one us to the other's side - in this discussion. But at least we can put our positions forth fairly constructively.

Though I admit if I truly were a bit more thin-skinned I might take exception to being the only member you don't address as "Dear" !
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If I knew your name, I'd address you as 'Dear ____'. But gdi isn't a name. It's something to hide behind.

You are quite right that an anecdote from one person is worth no more than an anecdote from another. Unless, that is, more people recognize more underlying truth in one anecdote than in another.

You are also quite right that a snap analysis of 'thin skin' is worth nothing. Unless, once again, more people sympathise with one side's analysis than the other.

Above all, you have failed to address the point that it is perfectly possible for one person to imagine that he is not being rude and arrogant, while simultaneously believing that someone else is. I do not exclude myself from this analysis.

Cheers,

R.
 
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I received my first "Rude" reply on the Internet in 1985.

I should really create Internet Aliases based on my initials. Both an alias, and accurate description rolled into one.
 
I can never really understand reluctance to reveal one's name here...after all I shall almost certainly never meet most of the people I 'talk to' here, a lot - regrettably, and a few - gladly!
 
Brian Sweeney said:
I received my first "Rude" reply on the Internet in 1985.

I should really create Internet Aliases based on my initials. Both an alias, and accurate description rolled into one.
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Part of the reason I was occasionally called by my initials in college was the fraternal reference to those Goddam Independents.
 
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