The Kiev Project - Outline

[ruben]

In a few more lines I will propose an outline for our project. But it seems to me I may have been somewhat misunderstood. This is NOT going to be a course in camera fixing. First because I don't have the necessarily knowledge and wether I want it or not, I cannot. But secondly, and more important, because we are above all photographers, not repairmen, with all due respect to repairmen and to repairmen that are photographers too.

What we are looking for is cameras that work smoothly, fastly and efficiently. This is all about. Accordingly, our approach when disassembling either the camera or lenses, will be to disassemble as less as possible - this, in direct contrast to the Kiev Survival Site.

However, my experience comfirms that many many apparent jams are due to dirt and no lubrication. Therefore, by taking the necessary steps for this minimalist aim, we will automatically start to pay attention to the inners of the gears, and be able to discover some malfunctions as a matter of rythm, observation and common sense.


Ok, Now for the Outline I propose:

PART 1 will deal with transforming a rather crude Kiev into a charmingly working one. In the way, we will have to deal with adjusting the rangefinder mechanism, and at the end we will confront in direct battle the dragon of curtains distension. But as you can understand, we are not going to disassemble the tensioning spring compound, which I call "the hard bone". Instead we are going to clean and lubricate it to the best of our abilities, with a lot of patience.

PART 2 will deal with softening our stiff lenses, with minimal disassembly, to the extent it can be done with minimal disassembly..

PART 3 will deal with bringing our beautiful cameras into even higher degrees of aesthetical look, with due measures on behalf of those of us who do not want to attract too much public attention, and still have the most possible beautifull camera. All models will be dealt with, and the 4AM will be converted into a shockingly surprising beauty.

PART 4 will deal with camera and lenses markings, in order to make them MUCH more visible and therefore easing and speeding up our manipulation of camera and lenses. As the most staunch example, that extremely cumbersome J-12 will become into the most easy lens to manipulate, after the standard ones.

PART 5 will introduce us to the minimum necessary for us to produce ourselves the best straps on Earth, and our own leather cases for lenses, so that they both fit securely in our pockets and become fast to pull out and back, as well as compact to carry. (Start collecting whatever unused leather at home, from your companion boots up to your old wallets) We also will learn to transform and adapt existing Kiev cases.

PART 6 will deal with enhancing the efficiency of some surrounding devices such as viefinders, hoods, the Turret, etc., and perhaps some inventions of our own.

PART 7, will be the last one. We will arrive to it dressed to kill with the best pistols around. But here we will train in adapting ourselves to the Kiev shortcommings compared to cameras today. I mean we will train ourselves in using the handheld meter rather randomly and not at every shot. We will refine our mental parallax compensation for the standard lens, and also our eye distance estimation. The purpose of this chapter will be geared towards the street photographer. If we manage to adapt, through trial and error and persistance, most of the chances are we will become extremely fast shooters and never wish any other camera brand. Fair enough after all the effort we are going to input. (*)

Open to discussion.

Cheers,
Ruben

(*) Kindly take note of the following. With the advance of camera technology, we enjoy of more and more technical facilities such as AF, AE, digital displays, etc. But at the same time we less and less use the most sophysticated instruments on Earth: our own brains, instincts, guessing, intuition and accumulated experience.
The point could be made that advanced camera technology frees the photographer from side issues and enables him to concentrate in composition. Theoretically this can be true. In practice we fiddle more and more with the same technology supposed to free us from fiddling.
Therefore, at Part 7, we will travel back in time to try to catch up with those efficient photographers, who managed to work fast and accurately when the Contaxes and Kievs were at the order of the day. We will shoot Contaxes and Kievs as Contax and Kiev shooters.

 

[alternatve]

I support the idea of minimal disassembly as more time spent taking parts out means less time enjoying taking picture with your Kiev, which is the main point of the project. Also, the more parts are taken out, the more things can go wrong that will turn your Kiev into a expensive nice looking paperweight. I'll have to find a substitute for my Kiev while she's under "servicing" as this is the only working RF I have left. So if anyone has a cheap working Kiev lying around at home, you know who to look for. 😉 I prefer meterless cameras.

I'm still testing the camera for light leaks and film spacing, so I'll be delayed in proceeding to the first stage. Reporting back with the results hopefully by next week!

Regards,
Samuel

 

[hitmanh]

I have a body ready and waiting... plus a Kiev to 😉

 

[ruben]

I think I forgot to clearly pinpoint the most important. True, along the Project, we will be highly upgrading our Kievs, but we will be equally upgrading ourselves.

The specific camera can go wrong and break for many reasons not related to your putting the hands inside, and turn for a while into a parts Kiev. A parts Kiev is not a trashed camera you lost and cry about, but a sleeping beauty you put in bed in the most orderly way, waiting for the day it will awake back. That day will come.

What will never be lost is the experience you are to accumulate. The speediest way to accumulate the most experience within the Project is to use your own senses, guided by your brains, with a spirit of criticism. This is key element number one.

I am not at your home seeing your Kiev or your negatives, but you are. You will be making evaluations of the situation and making choices, according to what you see, feel and think. Obviously, with less experience the possibility of making evaluation errors grows. But this is the whole thing. In the same way you can make mistakes from which you will learn, you can skip many of them, by believing in your own potential capacity. Your own potential capacity - this is key element number two. We will be upgrading ourselves. At the same time we will be looking to our training camera, we also will be looking inwards, seeking the best in us to move in the dark, as actually blind people do.

At each step in our methodical advance, I will be starting by pointing your attention to the possible traps, to the best of my knowledge. I know some of them, not all of them. This is a fact you should take into account, and evaluate to the best of your own. I, still want to go forwards.

One of the paradoxes of life is that when we are young we are bold. We are bold but we lack experience, and therefore make gross mistakes. On the other hand, when we are older and experience has been accumulated, we are chickened by the blows of life and are afraid to move too much, to experiment, to try new things. At this stage we are waisting our experience for the lack of boldness. (In this sense experience and boldness ressemble couple life)

But isn't stillness due to fear a mistake by itself?

Therefore this Kiev Project should be taken as a small exercise in overcoming ourselves. We will proceed methodically, step by step, using the best in us, but we will not be afraid of making mistakes. On the contrary, once we proceed methodically, with all our senses, mistakes will be welcomed for showing us the right path. Or the less absurd path.

Mistakes could be made also by our own intervention. Then instead of crying and shouting f@%$#ck, f@%$#ck, f@%$#ck - we should deal with them in the same way we deal with our Kievs, as pupils trying to learn the most, aware that life is not perfect and yet able to be highly improved, if the right lesson is obtained and followed.

We are not heading to improve a single camera. But we are going to develope our potential to the fullest, making our Kievs accessible and rational to deal with. Making ourselves tall enough for the task.

You can be a devoted soldier, but you are able to do better by being a critical participant, no matter of your technical level. On the contrary, as more often than not it happens in all orders of life, the lowest your technical level the more interesting will be your questions, remmarks, disagreements and fears. You have just to believe in yourself, and express your point loudly.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[rick oleson]

Hi Ruben!

Thanks for your note. This looks like an excellent project... is it specifically Kiev oriented or does it include Zorkis, etc as well? I do have some things that I'll be happy to contribute: disassembly sketches of various bits, ribbon-replacement notes, home-made viewfinder masks for tele lenses, and a pocket exposure calculator so you don't have to carry a meter around with you..... if you have a place to put those or just link to them from my website.

I'm not particularly into 'restoration to factory specs', as you probably know.... more into figuring out why it's not working and getting it to work again, with the minimum risk of making it worse in the attempt. This, I suppose, is a philosophy better suited to Kievs and Zorkis than to Contaxes and Leicas, though I've applied it to both.....

rick : ) =

 

[zhang xk]

Hello Ruben,

I have a good, maybe an excellent idea. Take some Russian watches first, and if one can successfully fix something so small as a wrist watch, a camera will be a piece of cake.😀 Just kidding, as I am fixing watches these days, I learned that a Kiev is a much more complex machine than a mechanical automatic watch, and it contains some parts that are as precision as a watch's parts. Soviet Kievs are precision and valuable gears although they are sold cheap. Treat them as a $5,000 item. These are antiques now IMHO.🙄


Cheers,

Zhang

 

[ruben]

Hi Ruben!

...........I'm not particularly into 'restoration to factory specs', as you probably know.... more into figuring out why it's not working and getting it to work again, with the minimum risk of making it worse in the attempt. This, I suppose, is a philosophy better suited to Kievs and Zorkis than to Contaxes and Leicas, though I've applied it to both.....

rick : ) =

Hi Rick,
Since I purchased my first Kiev, back to some three months ago, I have been quite astonished by the beauty and potential of these cameras, but they remained mostly 'in the shelf'. Trial after trial, send them back there.

This was due to two basic problems: camera stiffness and cumbersome overall operation of the system (camera, lenses and surrounding devices) for an OM guy like me. On both issues I have been randomly working for the last three years, with most success in inventing ways and devices for speeding up the overall manipulation. Yet the cameras remained stiff to frustration and shelf.

On the stiffness front, basically I have put them into the microwave, then in the freezer and finally in the washing machine... .... until one day I purchased an ultrasoft Fed 2 from Oleg, which comparing it to another average Fed I owned, it became clear that beyond lubrication, his Fed has passed through a stage unknown to me until then: curtain distention. From here onwards the gates of heaven gracefully opened for my Kievs.

With this, I am trying to say your camera philosophy is not only most welcome, but highly needed. On one side there are several proceedings that although working for me it would be extremely usefull to have your feedback. On the other hand, original ideas and imagination as you have exampled in your post, is the main fuel I have been using till now, as I myself am not particularly gear head. Whatever You think is due to input, input !

The Kiev Project is intended to upgrade our gear and ourselves to the best possible heights, higher beyond my limits via every one contribution and experience. We want our Kievs to work as close to Contaxes as possible, knowing on one hand they are not Contaxes, but on the other hand that a lot of ground is still to be fought and won.

There is a last point I would like to touch and it is serving the beginer. We can have a little high society party of elevated minds, but this is of limited use. On the other hand, if we manage to explain ourselves to the starter, we will change the status of the Kievs in the rangefinder world regardless of how much it will be noticed in the short term. This is quite ambitious and so I am on certain issues. Upon my my impression, the beginner is not only an intelligent person lacking info, but prompt to ask the most interesting questions, the basic questions, upon which the whole building stands.

Nevertheless, I am noticing the possibility of maintaining two parallel channels. One for the beginner at his first stage, the other more advanced, provided he/she wants to go farther, either later or now.

As for Feds and Zorkis, i don't see any reason why any reference to these famous cousins is to be silenced if it helps us in our goal.

Cheers, and Welcome !
Ruben

And many thank for linking us with your website:

http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/

 

[rick oleson]

On the subject of handling, I also am an old OM guy, and the Contax/kiev is certainly different. But, rather like the OM was for people used to conventional control layouts, there is a slightly different way of holding and operating the camera that, if you follow it, makes it quite quick and convenient. Perhaps you've heard of the "Contax Grip"? This is a special way of holding your right hand on the camera: Lay your first finger across the top of the wind knob, so that the first knuckle, not the fingertip, is on top of the release button. Now rest your second finger on top of the focusing wheel, and let your remaining 2 fingers grip the leather front. This has the combined effect of a very smooth shutter release, rapid focusing with the wheel (50mm lenses only, sorry), and at the same time it keeps your fingers out of the way of the front RF window. Once you have gotten used to this hand position it feels more normal than your old way, and the camera becomes faster than a Leica to operate.

One other thing I can provide, which may be of interest: I have a 1948 copy of the Zeiss Contax II/III instruction manual, which includes the above advice as well as some other interesting stuff that will apply as well to the Kiev as to the Contax.

 

[ruben]

Much of my issue is indeed in the gripping, but the gripping of the whole system. Once I lost my patience and for a ten days trip to Istanbul I took two Kiev bodies and the four lenses plus a Soviet Universal Turret Finder, thinking like in my OM past this will be easy breakfast....... I think I was lucky my wife didn't divorce me.

The SUTF was falling to the floor time and again. The lenses were a pain to exchange, first and foremost the J-12. Combining lens with the right SUTF focal length - an additional task. Then using the hand meter for each shot. The whole orquestra played a traumatic cacophony. My only consolation was my wisdom in having taken with me also an Olympus SP "for action", which enabled me to catch a nice peddler mid street walking towards me.

This is part and parcel of the Kiev/Contax stuff as seen from today's perspective, besides the non smooth Kievs. And this all is what should be addressed, starting with the mechanical excelency and smoothness of the camera.

Here at RFF we are champions among ourselves of the single lens approach, singing our song of songs to simplicity. But Contaxes are system cameras (*) that have been used at WWII, and I don't think they were manipulated as bad as I did in Turkey.

Most of us if not all, have been born after WWII, so in order to regain from the sepulcres the techniques of speedy pro manipulation or our Kievs and Contaxes, if we really want them for daily use, we must use the best of our imagination, deduction, and mutual exchange of info.

Have I matched, via additions, discoverings and inventions, the speed of manipulation possible with the OM system since then and towards the project? On some aspects no, but on other aspects definitely yes and more - and this speaks a lot as we are measuring ourselves against a classic of camera design invented thirty years later, by a genius mind.

Cheers,
Ruben

(*) On this issue I had a rather direct discussion with Mike Kovacks, here at RFF long time ago. He claimed that once you go for using more than one lens with the Contax, then the whole effectiveness is lost.
I am a bit sorry for not having the opportunity at the time to acknowledge that while I still hold my view, the right way to dominate the manipulation of several lenses is to get used to one or two first, and only afterwards life with the others becomes easier.

 

[Cutly]

Hi,
very interested in this project!
Could you please tell us wich are the sources you already know to CLA a kiev?
I know the kiev survival site, but is there any other place? like a thread in this forum I've missed, for example?
I'll certainly learn a lot of things by myself, but if some informations are already easy to find, it would be very helpfull.
thanks

thomas

edit: I've got a rather disapointing 4am to improve, considering all I've read about kievs: very loud indeed; so I'm looking forward to any informations about how to make it quiet, soft and as discreet as possible. (and please excuse my english if I make some mistakes: I'm french)

 

[moretto]

Ruben, thank You for starting this project. My first Kiev arrived two days ago..seems nice but has some bugs...the lens tends to unscrew while changing aperture, and won't fire the flash....looking forward to the project 😀

 

[ruben]

Hi Thomas and moretto:

The "Kiev Project" is by now frozen. The reason is technical and I will explain it. Cleand and Lubricating, and Adjusting both the range finder mechanism and the tension of the winding knob - all these require the camera dis-assembling into two main parts, one of them is the shutter mechanism as a whole.
Up to this point and beyond there is no problem for me to go with the project.

But during the disassembling there is a chance that by simple accident someone will move the sutter speed dial from its former position and here the danger he will provoke what is called shutter dis-synchronization, or in plain words that the components will not be in place. Fine

Russ Pinchbeck mailed me a special document explaining how to re-synchronize the shutter. The document requires a massive investment of time by me to control the whole issue of synchronization, and at the time I myself decided upon redirecting my free-time towards photographing instead of understanding better our beloved Kievs.

Nevertheless, you can read whatever you find in a search of "Kiev Project", and there you may find many keys to do many things yourselves. Besides you can allways post a concrete question and we all here will be glad to answer.

My decision to postpone the continuation of the project is by no means definitive or forever, as the need still exists. But remember that no matter how hard you may find the Kiev Survival Site, we Kiev owners have the best "how to" website worlwide up to day. If you find it hard, like me, advance with it slower, like me.

Now I will refer to several issues you have pointed to in your recent posts:

Kiev CLA sources
Besides what is found at the KSS, I learnt several quirks by my own practice.
Search this forum for additional info.
By the end of the day your Kiev must work smoothly and accurately. It is more than possible.

Kiev 4AM
This is the type I use daily, due to its more modern features which I like. Yet they have some parts which you can classify them as second rate. In order to arise two shooter cameras from two Kievs 4AM I had to work hard and replace several parts of the rangefinding mechanism with parts from older and better Kievs.

Noisy Kiev ?
I use my Kievs 4am with old cases designed for Kiev 2 or 2a, they are the most tight fitting and therefore best reducing noise, within the low built in noise of a Kiev.
In a street your Kiev must be unpossible to hear from 1,5~2m.

Soft Kiev
50% of the stifness of the eBay Kievs is due to shutter over-tension. Search here about "The Hard Bone". BTW, the shutter overtension plus dryied lubricants is what makes a Kiev sound "noisy". Lubricated and distensioned, Kievs are among the most silent cameras.
35% is due to the camera gears not being absolutely clean.
15% is due to lubrication.

Making a Kiev discrete - converting a cinderella into a Miss Universe.
Kievs 4am, for whom owns a Kiev from the early 70's and backwards, is quite an ugly finnished camera. The ugliness flows from the following:
a) The rough external plates
b) The oblique front plate
c) The unpossible to stand self time lever
d) I am not mentioning the leatherette since anyway the camera is to be used with a case.
e) The ugly Kiev4am case.

So when we make it discrete, we will take the oportunity to change all these

a) For the plates, you can buy for penauts from Alex photo goods at eBay, black front plates new. Just tell him 10 times you don't want black plates for Kiev 4am. After you told him 10 times, tell him another time too. Then you will have to black paint yourself the top and lower plates. The hot shoe is to be painted too.

Painting these metals involve three stages:
1) sanding them a bit
2) applying a first "primer" layer of white paint. A primer is a paint enabling the black paint to be adhesive to metal.
3) black painting of course, and leaving the painted parts in an oven at minimum temperature (some 40 centigrades) for at least 24 hours.

b) From Alex Photo Goods you can purchase by special request a full niquel self timer lever, besides the front plate and the old case, all these for very low prices. Before installing the new self timer lever, black tape the throat part, leaving free only the top and lower circles.

c) The case will come not at his best, but with shoe polishing with a nice color you will see a dramatic change. You can apply Kiwi black leather paint.

Finally, there is the issue of a wrist instead of strap. Using a black wrist (avoid leather here) with a mobile plastic "ring" to flatten it up to your arm, is your final step to make your camera as conspicuous as possible.

d) with a cut of bicyclete tube, cover teeth of the winding knob. This will also help for an extra softening in an unlubricated camera.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[Cutly]

Hi,
thanks for answering.
So I'm hardly trying to search this forum for kiev & "hard bone".
I think a good up on the kiev project would just be to make a list of useful posts.
thomas

EDIT: still can't find anything about that "hard bone". I'm certainly missing something at some point. If someone saw a post about distensionning kiev's shutter.. Cause that's not on kiev survival site, is it? It's just about "shutter assembly removal", but I can't find anything about that over-tension thing.
As I mentionned above, English is not my usual language, so I maybee just misunderstood something.

 

[ruben]

With the help of "display options" at the lower part of the general FSU forum page, set it at 1 year and start looking at this and subsequent Kiev threads one by one till now:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39136

Cheers,
Ruben