The Largest Ocean Liner to Die At Sea

From the Wiki article:

Given that the crew had already abandoned ship in the first lifeboats, panic took over, and thus began some of the injuries gained within the evacuation.
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I don't know how accurate this is but I said from the start that Wiki was my source of information here. If you have better sources, consider improving Wiki instead of lecturing me.
 
Nikon Bob said:
The top heavy look still meets marine engineering standards WRT center of gravity I am sure. It is accomplished through the use fairly lightweight materials. There is also a massive amount of glass area on cruise ships that you would never see on an ocean liner. The more holes you punch in the superstructure the weaker it can become and the glazing is also less resistant to wave impact than any solid superstructure. The other drawback to such massive superstructures is that they act like a great big sail making maneuvering tricky with any kind of wind up. All ok for their intended use, fair weather sailing.

Bob
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These cruise ships are pretty ugly slab sided monstrosities (another reason never to go on a cruise) but I have a notion that with a hole the size of the one punched in this vessel nothing could save it, no matter how sea worthy a design it had.

But this little article demonstrates reasonably clearly how a ship's centre of gravity and centre of buoyancy work in unison when it is heeled over to either right it - or if things go wrong turn it over onto its side.

Ignore the symbols and formula, you can get the gist of the article by studying the pictures.

In short when a ship heels over too far at some point the vertical line of force of the centre of gravity is outside the vertical line of force of the centre of buoyancy - then instead of having a tendancy to right itself the ship has a tendancy to turn over. This is worse when the centre of gravity is too high above the centre of buoyancy.

http://titanic-model.com/articles/A_Matter_of_Stability_Trim/A Matter of Stability & Trim.pdf
 
Certainly these new liners are ugly. I had thought of taking a day off to see the new Queen Elizabeth pass through the heads of our local bay on March 5th but when I looked at her online my enthusiasm waned a little, or more than a little. Pics may follow.
 
batterytypehah! said:
From the Wiki article:



I don't know how accurate this is but I said from the start that Wiki was my source of information here. If you have better sources, consider improving Wiki instead of lecturing me.
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Sorry, but this post I find just mind-boggling.

Newsflash: If you quote a source that is less than definitive *by definition* a la wikipedia, DO NOT act offended if someone corrects you or implies you don't know the whole story.

If you have better sources, use them before getting offended that someone dared question wikipedia. Just because it's on wikipedia does NOT mean it is infallible or even accurate.
 
I'd rather take a puddle jumper city-to-city. Being out at sea for days on end and endless gorging is not my idea of fun. 100 foot sailboat might grab my attention. YMMV.
 
Captain arrested

Captain arrested

dabick42 said:
It is an incredibly large ship that was unfortunately captained by an incredibly incompetant idiot, by all accounts...
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Captain Schettino is facing charges of multiple manslaughter, abandoning ship and causing a disaster, and has been taken into custody. Costa Crociere, the Carnival line that runs the ship Costa Concordia, said early indications were that the captain had made "very serious judgments" and failed to follow company emergency procedures.
r
 
40oz said:
Sorry, but this post I find just mind-boggling.

Newsflash: If you quote a source that is less than definitive *by definition* a la wikipedia, DO NOT act offended if someone corrects you or implies you don't know the whole story.

If you have better sources, use them before getting offended that someone dared question wikipedia. Just because it's on wikipedia does NOT mean it is infallible or even accurate.
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I'm not "acting offended," I'm simply stating, once again -- just as I did from the beginning -- that I'm repeating information found elsewhere, stating my source. Infallible, accurate, and whatnot are all claims that you made, not I.

Now, it doesn't surprise me in the least that for doing so, I'm somehow felt to be at fault here, while the person making unsubstantiated and unattributed statements has so far not felt the need to back them up. That's just the way it works. Our current crop of presidential hopefuls makes a case in point.
 
Almost surreal photo of what happened. Hopefully they soon will be able to find the remaining 25 persons missing.

MikeAUS said:
Captain Schettino is facing charges of multiple manslaughter, abandoning ship and causing a disaster, and has been taken into custody. Costa Crociere, the Carnival line that runs the ship Costa Concordia, said early indications were that the captain had made "very serious judgments" and failed to follow company emergency procedures.
r
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As an ex-Merchant Seaman, I always wondered where the idea that the crew was supposed to get off last originated? from the passengers? From the Ship owners? Sure didn't originate with the oilers or coal passers. (said somewhat with tongue in check).

Anyway, as Sevo states, a huge portion of the crew of luxury liners are low paid servants that have limited or no duties in an accident. Why they should risk their life for the well-to-do is beyond my understanding.

I never worked on a cruise ship but I remember the discussion on abandoning ship in one wardroom during supper -
Captain - the Captain is the last one off the ship to ensure everyone else is off, that is my responsibility.
Chief Engineer - I agree, the Chief should also be the last one off the ship
1st Engineer- I agree with the Chief, he should immediately come to the engine room and relieve me of the watch so I can get to a lifeboat.

Funny at the time, however they all went down on the SS Fitzgerald.





sevo said:
The Andrea Doria crew was not blamed with abandoning the ship - on the contrary, the rescue effort seems to have been quite unusually successful and well-coordinated. Indeed they managed to rescue everybody alive on board, no mean feat on a ship that had suffered a severe crash out at sea and had more than 200 injured.

Boats full of waiters may insult the ethics of Titanic viewers - but on post-Titanic ships the orchestra is NOT supposed to drown. The service crew (waiters, musicians, cooks etc.) are passengers as far as emergency procedures are concerned and should leave the ship along with the same, and with the crew decks being lowest chances are that they are evacuated first. Only the stewards, medical and nautical staff are involved in the rescue operations and supposed to stay aboard as long as needed.
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Nikon Bob said:
The other thing you have to wonder about is that, from reports on the news, life boat stations had not even been practiced before the sinking/grounding. Going back over 40 years ago, the first thing we exercised after clearing harbour was "boats and floats". This on a destroyer with no passengers that did not have the first clue.

Bob
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Such drills were mandatory on the English passenger ships on which I traveled as a boy.
 
What saved so many lives in the Andrea Doria wreck is that the other ship involved, the Stockholm, was severely damaged, but not disabled. The Doria was just as helpless and inefficient in lowering lifeboats as the Costa C now turned out to be.

BTW, passengers pay, crew get paid. That's the difference, like it or not.
 
MikeAUS said:
Captain Schettino is facing charges of multiple manslaughter, abandoning ship and causing a disaster, and has been taken into custody. Costa Crociere, the Carnival line that runs the ship Costa Concordia, said early indications were that the captain had made "very serious judgments" and failed to follow company emergency procedures.
r
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The BBC news just played audio of a conversation between the "harbour master" ( I'm not sure of his official title) and Captain Schettino. The Harbour Master was furious with Schettino for leaving the ship on a life boat whilst passengers were on board and no relevant information was being passed from the Captain and crew to the emergency services via the Harbour Master.

Having never been in such a horrendous situation I'm not about to blame a man for discovering just how he reacts in said situation - 99% survival of the passengers is something for the likes of us to focus on whilst the relevant authorities can judge the actions and/or inactions or the crew/captain and company.

I've always been more comfortable in the air than on sea, though the chances of getting me on a cruise were nil prior to this and regardless of my dislike of water deeper than I can stand in!
 
Well done Simon. I agree. We just don't know the facts and the details. Half the bridge is under water - maybe the Captain had to get out a window there, I don't know. It certainly doesn't look good for the man at the moment but I am not the judge and some of the headlines are a beat up. There will be layers and layers of fault in something like this, no doubt. It's not like an airliner, and most areas of our lives have not been subject to the sort of safety improvements that are taken for granted with air travel. The resourcefulness of certain passengers seems to have been integral to the high survival rate, but I'm not sure that with 4000 people it could ever be any different.
 
Yea, it is hard to judge the Captain's actions and reasons for them when you have not personally been it that position. OTH you have to wonder, if media reports are correct, that he did not return to the ship when asked/ordered to by the Harbour Master/Italian Coast Guard. On the face of it, it does not look good but the courts will decide in the end.

Bob
 
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