AutumnJazz
Member
How does the v4 (Canadian) compare against the German Aspherical?
I've heard the v4 has amazing bokeh; does the current lens not have as pleasing bokeh?
Thanks...I'm trying to discover the RF kit that is right for me. As of now, I think that is an M6 classic with some 35/2.
I've heard the v4 has amazing bokeh; does the current lens not have as pleasing bokeh?
Thanks...I'm trying to discover the RF kit that is right for me. As of now, I think that is an M6 classic with some 35/2.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
I think the V4 is a good lens, but the quality of it's out of focus rendering is overestimated. The Summilux 35mm f/1.4 pre asph is far more pleasing.
Erik.
Erik.
hans voralberg
Veteran
The ASPH is quite a bit sharper, but I find bokeh of both are pleasing 
stupid leica
i don't shoot rf
for a while i was considering a 35Lux pre-ASPH, until i started digging through shots and saw how bad it suffers from coma. I have never seen such bad and obvious coma on such an expensive lens. The V4 Cron, from what i've seen, is a great lens- and i have not seen coma from it ANYTHING like the Lux.
also..... the OOF renderings of a 1.4 vs 2.0 are going to be very different.
also..... the OOF renderings of a 1.4 vs 2.0 are going to be very different.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Yes, there are lens faults of all sorts, yet it is a very pleasing lens.
Leica MP, Summilux 35mm f/1.4 pre asph, Tmax400 printed on Ilford MGIV fb.
Erik.
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mike kim
Established
I have a V4, and while I love it, I think the whole "bokeh king" thing is overrated. But then again, I don't choose lenses based on their bokeh. Bokeh won't make a bad picture look better.
stupid leica
i don't shoot rf
Erik-
i have seen plenty of great shots from the Lux pre-ASPH, but what i do not feel it excels at is being a low/mixed/tricky available light lens... which is why i would get a 35mm f1.4. Your shot is at some smaller aperture, so there is not going to be anything wrong with it.
i have seen plenty of great shots from the Lux pre-ASPH, but what i do not feel it excels at is being a low/mixed/tricky available light lens... which is why i would get a 35mm f1.4. Your shot is at some smaller aperture, so there is not going to be anything wrong with it.
valdas
Veteran
I have both- V4 German version and pre-asph lux. V4 also can have coma's if wide open, but it has really nice bokeh at slightly smaller appertures. it is probably overrated taking into consideration price premium though. as to lux pre-asph - it's a nice lens, but very very soft at 1.4, it's like with softar filter which you either like (I do) or hate... bokeh of lux wide open? here is an example:
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OurManInTangier
An Undesirable
Have you checked out the samples of various lenses on Flickr?
http://www.flickr.com/groups/m-mount/discuss/72157600006119333/
If issues such as bokeh are important then these pages may help you decide.
FWIW - I have the v4 Summicron and love it. Not because it was somehow crowned the 'Bokeh King' but because its an excellent lens and very small...whether its good enough to demand the premium prices only you must decide. My v4 tends to be used primarily on my M8 as a 'standard' lens these days as I use my 35mm Nokton 1.2 on my M6 bodies - if you can handle a bulkier lens ( in RF terms ) then maybe you could consider it too - I've fallen for it in a big way. Slightly less contrast allowing me more control and a magnificent character in the final image. Worth a look.
http://www.flickr.com/groups/m-mount/discuss/72157600006119333/
If issues such as bokeh are important then these pages may help you decide.
FWIW - I have the v4 Summicron and love it. Not because it was somehow crowned the 'Bokeh King' but because its an excellent lens and very small...whether its good enough to demand the premium prices only you must decide. My v4 tends to be used primarily on my M8 as a 'standard' lens these days as I use my 35mm Nokton 1.2 on my M6 bodies - if you can handle a bulkier lens ( in RF terms ) then maybe you could consider it too - I've fallen for it in a big way. Slightly less contrast allowing me more control and a magnificent character in the final image. Worth a look.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
You also may take the Voigtländer Ultron 35mm f/1.7 into consideration. It is extremely good at f/1.7 and does not flare like the Leica 35mm aspherics (although that flare is not my own experience, because I did not try them).
Leica II, Voigtländer Ultron 35mm f/1.7 @ f/1.7, Tmax400 printed on Ilford MGIV fb.
Erik.
Leica II, Voigtländer Ultron 35mm f/1.7 @ f/1.7, Tmax400 printed on Ilford MGIV fb.
Erik.
maddoc
... likes film again.
I had both, the v4 35mm Summicron-M and 35mm Summilux-M pre-ASPH for a while and sold the Summicron. Only advantage of the Summicron was the closer focus distance.
Here a recent photo from the 35mm Summilux-M pre-ASPH being "soft" at f/1.4:
Here a recent photo from the 35mm Summilux-M pre-ASPH being "soft" at f/1.4:
peter_n
Veteran
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
I owned the 35 Summilux pre-asph and regret having sold it. I replaced it with the 35 Summilux asph at twice the cost. The 35 Summilux asph is great lens but alot bigger.
tbarker13
shooter of stuff
The 35 pre-asph is far from perfect. But this lens is really growing on me. Soon, I think i may be the only 35 that I keep.
Here are a couple shots in absolutely awful lighting conditions. The second was shot wide open at 1/16 second. They are from a small documentary project I'm doing on a local community theater. This is back stage, where they have only one small light. (couldn't even use a flash back there if I wanted to)
I know there are lenses out there that would be sharper wide open. But I just enjoy they way this lens renders.
Here are a couple shots in absolutely awful lighting conditions. The second was shot wide open at 1/16 second. They are from a small documentary project I'm doing on a local community theater. This is back stage, where they have only one small light. (couldn't even use a flash back there if I wanted to)
I know there are lenses out there that would be sharper wide open. But I just enjoy they way this lens renders.
raid
Dad Photographer
I am debating with myself whether I want to get a pre-asph 35mm 1.4 or not, so this thread is somewht helpful so far.
AutumnJazz
Member
Heh, well, I have barely $2,000 that I could spend. I love the 35mm focal length, and all that I shoot is street and concerts. Yeah, low light...maybe not the best place for a rangefinder.
What I want is a 35mm lens that is relatively fast, and decent wide-open. And not too, too much used...
Edited to add: I also want a somewhat inconspicuous lens (small)...The Summilux lenses seem to be out of the question to me, due to their price and their size. But mainly their price.
What I want is a 35mm lens that is relatively fast, and decent wide-open. And not too, too much used...
Edited to add: I also want a somewhat inconspicuous lens (small)...The Summilux lenses seem to be out of the question to me, due to their price and their size. But mainly their price.
stupid leica
i don't shoot rf
i have seen tons od pre-asph lux for under $2000
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Maybe the Voigtländer Nokton 35mm f/1.4 is something for you. When you can live with some barrel distortion it is a fine lens, smaller but faster than the Ultron.
Erik.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Your budget will cover a lot of 35's. The V4 35f2 Summicron is a good lens - but severly overhyped. A V3 or a V2 would do just as well and for less money. All are small and "discreet" lenses.
The 35f1.4 pre-asph is an interesting lens. It has all the "flaws" of an early 60's design. Coma, aberrations,flare, field curvature etc - but I like it anyway. Sentimental reasons maybe - but it screams 60's as a bl/w lens.
You might consider a 35f1.2 Nokton for truly low light shooting and keeping a 35f1.4 pre-asph or the 35f2 as a "standard" lens. You should be able to get both within your budget.
The 35f1.4 Asph I never got along with. Good performer, but both that I had would flare excessively. The 35f2 Asph is very sharp, almost a clinical style of rendition. Better flare control than the 1.4 Asph. I use mine mainly as a "guide" to check how close everybody else comes to its resolution and sharpness (none is as sharp)) - but I am not thrilled with the "scalpel" edge of its rendition.
Your choice is probably more determined by what "look" you want to achieve and your budget than anything else.
The 35f1.4 pre-asph is an interesting lens. It has all the "flaws" of an early 60's design. Coma, aberrations,flare, field curvature etc - but I like it anyway. Sentimental reasons maybe - but it screams 60's as a bl/w lens.
You might consider a 35f1.2 Nokton for truly low light shooting and keeping a 35f1.4 pre-asph or the 35f2 as a "standard" lens. You should be able to get both within your budget.
The 35f1.4 Asph I never got along with. Good performer, but both that I had would flare excessively. The 35f2 Asph is very sharp, almost a clinical style of rendition. Better flare control than the 1.4 Asph. I use mine mainly as a "guide" to check how close everybody else comes to its resolution and sharpness (none is as sharp)) - but I am not thrilled with the "scalpel" edge of its rendition.
Your choice is probably more determined by what "look" you want to achieve and your budget than anything else.
Meleica
Well-known
here are the notes from my site:
35 Summicron F2 Type 1
Introduced 1958. Many users believe the Type 1 is the best non-aspherical version ever made. There are two versions of Type 1; one is the "M3" type which has "eyes" attached to allow the lens to be used on the M3's finder which doesnt cover the 35mm view. The other version is called the "M2" type which is a regular M mount lens that can mount to any M-mount camera. The M3 type will work on other M cameras, but it will bring up 50mm framelines. The eyes can NOT be removed, else focusing errors will occur. Both types came in chrome and in black. These lenses had 8 elements and provided excellent resolution, but contrast was middle of the road. Many users love this version for classic black and white photography. About 12,000 M2 types were made; 10,000 M3 types. Close focus .7 meter (M2) and .65 meter (M3). Most of the Type 1 lenses were made and marked in CANADA. Some were made and marked Wetzlar.
35 Summicron F2 Type 2
Introduced 1969. Elements reduced from 8 to 6 in this version to improve contrast. Series 7 filter size. Contrast is improved over Type 1, but resolution is not quite as good. Some had an infinity lock, others did not. Lens came only in black. Aperture adjusted with a tab. Close Focus .7 meters.
35 Summicron F2 Type 3
Introduced about 1971/2. Optics changed slighty, infinity lock gone. Performance is basically identical to previous version. Some early ones may have Series 7 filter, but then all E39 filter. Lens came in black only after 26xxxxx. Close Focus .7 meters.
35 Summicron F2 Type 4
Introduced 1979. Known as the "Bokeh King," this lens helped start the bokeh craze of 10+ years ago. Optics changed to 7 elements. Two versions - one with a convex focus tab, the other a concave tab ( see images below ). Originally made in black only; about 1994 some chrome versions were produced. Performance is improved over previous version, but coma and astigmatism remain in outer zones ( contributing to the nice bokeh ). E39 filter. Close Focus .7 meters.
35 Summicron F2 ASPH
Introduced 1996. 7 elements including asphere surfaces. Significant improvements in contrast, resolution, vignetting. Technically, one of the finest 35mm f2.0 lenses anyone has made. Chrome, black and titanium versions available. Close Focus .7 meters.
35 Summicron F2 Type 1
Introduced 1958. Many users believe the Type 1 is the best non-aspherical version ever made. There are two versions of Type 1; one is the "M3" type which has "eyes" attached to allow the lens to be used on the M3's finder which doesnt cover the 35mm view. The other version is called the "M2" type which is a regular M mount lens that can mount to any M-mount camera. The M3 type will work on other M cameras, but it will bring up 50mm framelines. The eyes can NOT be removed, else focusing errors will occur. Both types came in chrome and in black. These lenses had 8 elements and provided excellent resolution, but contrast was middle of the road. Many users love this version for classic black and white photography. About 12,000 M2 types were made; 10,000 M3 types. Close focus .7 meter (M2) and .65 meter (M3). Most of the Type 1 lenses were made and marked in CANADA. Some were made and marked Wetzlar.
35 Summicron F2 Type 2
Introduced 1969. Elements reduced from 8 to 6 in this version to improve contrast. Series 7 filter size. Contrast is improved over Type 1, but resolution is not quite as good. Some had an infinity lock, others did not. Lens came only in black. Aperture adjusted with a tab. Close Focus .7 meters.
35 Summicron F2 Type 3
Introduced about 1971/2. Optics changed slighty, infinity lock gone. Performance is basically identical to previous version. Some early ones may have Series 7 filter, but then all E39 filter. Lens came in black only after 26xxxxx. Close Focus .7 meters.
35 Summicron F2 Type 4
Introduced 1979. Known as the "Bokeh King," this lens helped start the bokeh craze of 10+ years ago. Optics changed to 7 elements. Two versions - one with a convex focus tab, the other a concave tab ( see images below ). Originally made in black only; about 1994 some chrome versions were produced. Performance is improved over previous version, but coma and astigmatism remain in outer zones ( contributing to the nice bokeh ). E39 filter. Close Focus .7 meters.
35 Summicron F2 ASPH
Introduced 1996. 7 elements including asphere surfaces. Significant improvements in contrast, resolution, vignetting. Technically, one of the finest 35mm f2.0 lenses anyone has made. Chrome, black and titanium versions available. Close Focus .7 meters.
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