Tzelet
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Over the last couple of years I've been through all of the digital Leica M's out there (except for the M9-P). When I first bought the Leica M8 it never really clicked, I always felt that it was too expensive for what it was, and after a while I sold it on. Then there was the M8.2 and the M9, which cost more - and even though the M9 is a stellar camera, I just couldn't justify hanging on to it.
This week I saw a reasonable M8 for sale (around $1600) and more or less jumped on it. It arrived a couple of days ago, and I've shot around 500 frames so far. And behold, it is still a capable camera! Compared to my Nikon D7000, the ISO noise is just ridiculous, but on closer inspection - the details are all there. To me, it is almost film like, how it works - and the results. When I push HP5 or Tri-X to 800/1600, I don't expect "clean" negatives, and it's more or less the same with the M8.
I still hate the UV/IR-filters though, but hopefully I will have all that settled in a week or two. And the D7000 battery life has spoilt me rotten, for the first time I feel the need for an extra battery. It's eccentric as can be - but still, what a nice little camera.
So, what is the meaning of this post? To a lot of us, I assume that price matters. I have never been comfortable with expensive gear, even though it is insured. I've learned that I have a "comfort zone", and once I go beyond it I start worrying more about taking care of the camera/lenses, and stop shooting. This is also one of the reasons why I like the Zeiss and Voigtländer lineup so much: Worst come to worst, I will actually be able to afford a new 50mm Planar. The same thing with this M8: If it works fine for 2-3 years, I will actually be more than happy. I don't have to worry about the resale value.
I don't get that "A Leica is forever" feeling that I get with a Leica MP, but in some ways that is good. Perhaps this is the same feeling that you Epson R-D1 owners have? Our cameras have passed some invisible "best before" date, so let's make the best of it while it works? I have owned some expensive lenses, 35mm and 50mm Summilux-M ASPH comes to mind. And they were good, really good. But I just hate that feeling you get when you look at a lens and starts doing the math to see how many downpayments on the mortgage it would pay for.
This M8 feels like a "cheap" bottle of Champagne, the one that is cheap enough to actually drink instead of storing it in the cellar for that special occasion that never comes. Sure, I've had prosecco and cremant that were better and cheaper than that low end bottle of champagne. But, my heart would chose champagne every single time. Same way, I had the chance to play with the Sony Nex and adapters over Christmas, but that was too much spaceship and too little "photography" for me personally, although I must say that the quality of that Sony range really impressed me. Too old, I guess
To be honest: I still envy you M9 guys out there, but knowing myself - it is not the camera for me right now. Just take good care of them, will you? I'll be looking for one down the road
This week I saw a reasonable M8 for sale (around $1600) and more or less jumped on it. It arrived a couple of days ago, and I've shot around 500 frames so far. And behold, it is still a capable camera! Compared to my Nikon D7000, the ISO noise is just ridiculous, but on closer inspection - the details are all there. To me, it is almost film like, how it works - and the results. When I push HP5 or Tri-X to 800/1600, I don't expect "clean" negatives, and it's more or less the same with the M8.
I still hate the UV/IR-filters though, but hopefully I will have all that settled in a week or two. And the D7000 battery life has spoilt me rotten, for the first time I feel the need for an extra battery. It's eccentric as can be - but still, what a nice little camera.
So, what is the meaning of this post? To a lot of us, I assume that price matters. I have never been comfortable with expensive gear, even though it is insured. I've learned that I have a "comfort zone", and once I go beyond it I start worrying more about taking care of the camera/lenses, and stop shooting. This is also one of the reasons why I like the Zeiss and Voigtländer lineup so much: Worst come to worst, I will actually be able to afford a new 50mm Planar. The same thing with this M8: If it works fine for 2-3 years, I will actually be more than happy. I don't have to worry about the resale value.
I don't get that "A Leica is forever" feeling that I get with a Leica MP, but in some ways that is good. Perhaps this is the same feeling that you Epson R-D1 owners have? Our cameras have passed some invisible "best before" date, so let's make the best of it while it works? I have owned some expensive lenses, 35mm and 50mm Summilux-M ASPH comes to mind. And they were good, really good. But I just hate that feeling you get when you look at a lens and starts doing the math to see how many downpayments on the mortgage it would pay for.
This M8 feels like a "cheap" bottle of Champagne, the one that is cheap enough to actually drink instead of storing it in the cellar for that special occasion that never comes. Sure, I've had prosecco and cremant that were better and cheaper than that low end bottle of champagne. But, my heart would chose champagne every single time. Same way, I had the chance to play with the Sony Nex and adapters over Christmas, but that was too much spaceship and too little "photography" for me personally, although I must say that the quality of that Sony range really impressed me. Too old, I guess
To be honest: I still envy you M9 guys out there, but knowing myself - it is not the camera for me right now. Just take good care of them, will you? I'll be looking for one down the road
kemal_mumcu
Well-known
M8's are $1600 now?! Sounds like a good deal. I appreciate your perspective and its interesting to hear your reasons for "downgrading". It must have taken some reflection.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
$1600 + $3000 (the difference made by the M9) = $4600! I wasn't aware that the M9 was going for this much now.
soelin
Member
B and H trade in price for a "5" (perfect shape) M9 is currently $3875. I've seen a used M9 for $5100, but never below $5k.
jippiejee
Well-known
Well said... who needs one bottle of Dom Perignon when you can have a fridge full of Prosecco? And it's not like you get that M9 for its high iso performance either really... Cheers to your (and my) M8 and just use and enjoy it till it drops dead.
LCT
ex-newbie
LCT
ex-newbie
Eric T
Well-known
I agree. I don't use my M8 that often anymore but, when I do, I remain impressed by its capability. But that requires that I use it in those circumstances where it is intended - no macro, no long telephoto, and no low light without flash.
Lancer
Member
I have been blown away by my M8, having shot with Canon and good L series lenses, after my first shoot with the M8 and Summicron, I was shocked at the detail, clarity and color depth. An amazing camera for sure.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
Hear, hear!
I recently sold off my 28 and 75 summicrons. These are lenses that are unique in their focal length. However, there are many other lenses that sell for much less that are also unique, and, in any case, the uniqueness imparted to the image by gear is *for my purposes* negligible compared to the composition of the image itself.
My needs are being met. I accept that compromise, challenge and limitations are part of both image-making and life in general.
The M8 still produces images that look different from most other digicams out there, and I love what it can do with a ZM 18 and a CV 35/1.2 .
Chris Bail
Regular Guy
I've had my heart set on an M9 for a while, and keep waiting for the price to drop. The cheapest I've ever seen one go for used is $5100 or so...Usually I see them going for about $6000. I ended up paying $1900 for a nice, low mileage M8 instead, and I couldn't be happier. Sure, it's not the High ISO king, but it still does what it's supposed to do, and it's a joy to shoot with. Is the M8 really 1/3 the camera compared to the M9? I have a hard time believing that it is.
burancap
Veteran
That is two M8's for under 2k. Yikes!
user237428934
User deletion pending
I'm more than happy with my M8 again after I added the X100 as a "high-iso-prothesis" to my gear. I thought with the X100 my M8 would stay in the cupboard more often but up to ISO640 I like the M8 results much better.
I don't think that is how camera prices work...
Chris Bail
Regular Guy
I know. But when I'm looking at spending that kind of money on a camera, it's hard for me to justify the extra expense if I don't think I'll get the that much more enjoyment and functionality from it. I recognize that the prices of M9's haven't dropped yet because demand is still outpacing supply, but for what I want a digital rangefinder for, it just made more sense to go with the M8 since it fits most of what I'm looking for in a price range that's a bit more friendly. My comment wasn't a swipe at those who bought an M9, just a statement about how I justified my decision to buy an M8 instead.
I too went for the used M8 (then 8.2) before I went for a new M9. I'm glad I bought the M9 (very glad vs the M8.2), but I would never diss anyone who didn't. I most likely will not be buying the next M digital. $7000 was too much already and a one time thing for me (a luxury)... the next version will probably be $9,000-10,000 which I will not pay. Looks like I'll have to rely on Fuji in the coming years.
rdeleskie
Well-known
I'm another recent M8 owner (November). As has so often been stated, up to about ISO 640 the camera gives me sharper, more film-like and more pleasing results than any camera I've used (the most recent being the Nikon D7000 and the Sony NEX-5N). I purchased a Sony NEX-5N to use as a high-ISO body for my lens, and an auto-focus camera for the times I need one, but frankly, I've barely used it. I shoot for pleasure, and the M8 gives me more of that the various Nikon, Sony, Canon, Olympus and Panasonic digital cameras I've used.
twopointeight
Well-known
I recently acquired an M8.2 and am already using it for professional work. Its actually rekindled my interest in b&w, as 640 is no problem. For b&w it doesn't compete or conflict with the files from my 5DMK2. I also shoot less frames, and slower with the M8.2 than the Canon. It's closer to an analog approach, at least the way I'm settled in to using it.
Tom Niblick
Well-known
I wanted to keep my M8 but ended up selling it to get the M9. The M8 was a really great camera. And it has a look or signature that is different from the M9. It is not better or worse, just different.
The only problem I ever had with the M8 was that mine froze when the buffer was full and the battery was low. Not really a big deal as it only happened a dew times when it mattered but it bothered me enough that I bought the M9. Perhaps I was a bit hasty.
Overall, the M8 is a stellar picture taking machine. Tough, sharp and with built in IR capabilities, I never could understand why everyone knocked it. I wouldn't be afraid to buy another M8 and might again someday.
Tom
The only problem I ever had with the M8 was that mine froze when the buffer was full and the battery was low. Not really a big deal as it only happened a dew times when it mattered but it bothered me enough that I bought the M9. Perhaps I was a bit hasty.
Overall, the M8 is a stellar picture taking machine. Tough, sharp and with built in IR capabilities, I never could understand why everyone knocked it. I wouldn't be afraid to buy another M8 and might again someday.
Tom
The Meaness
Well-known
It's a personal thing, we all agree. I don't mind filters, didn't use any M lenses on film cameras previously, and didn't want anything fast besides one lens in the 50-90 range. Considering those preferences, the real difference between M8 and M9 for me was iso. I didn't have the funds to buy an M9 when I got my M8, and I didn't want to wait around to build up the money to get an M9. The M8 was 80-90% of the M9 to me.
Now, however, I want a small 35 that's f2 or faster. That you can't have on the M8. Anyone who considers that a deal breaker for their camera would say the M8 certainly isn't 80-90% of the M9 - on an M9 you can buy a summicron, summilux, or nokton, all small and f2 or faster.
It all depends on how you use the camera.