The Leica Predicament — 2014 Outlook and Beyond

[thegman]

Why should they dislike you?

They won't care much about your views on new Leicas, but they'll be happy that you like old ones.

This is something that a lot of users of old Leicas fail to understand (not you; a general observation). Why would anyone who is selling new products care very much about people who are never going to buy those products? Apart from general, vague goodwill?

Cheers,

R.

I would go a little further and say that Leica does not like or dislike anything, it's a corporation, it does not have feelings.

If we are to expand our views to Leica, as in, it's employees, each person will have different views. Some will work for Leica without giving a hoot about what Leica does, it's just a job. Some will want keenly to win back the film camera buyers and get them to buy a digital Leica. Some will wish Leica didn't make digital cameras at all. Some will have a good-riddance view to lost customers.

I think people often think of Leica the same way they do about Apple, with emotions attached. They are a company, nothing more, you buy the products they are making at the time, or you don't.

 

[CameraQuest]

Like any other company, Leica's plans can change quickly and unpredictably
-- a change of circumstances, a change of marketplace,
a change of personnel, a change of investors, etc.

Other than short range predictions which have a better change of coming true, Leica long range predictions are basically useless unless those predictions are being made by the company decision makers.

Stephen

 

[MikeAUS]

Fuji and Sony are "mass market" cameras, leica is a special brand

I love my mass market Sony RX1 😀

 

[Vince Lupo]

Nonetheless I still think that Apple is a bad role model for Leica.

Maybe Harley-Davidson might be a better comparison? They both have the heritage, are definitely doing things their own way, and those brand loyalists are (mostly) not going anywhere. There are other bike companies that are copying elements of Harleys, are likely more reliable, faster, cheaper etc etc, but those who want a Harley are going to buy a Harley, not something that's kinda like a Harley. And those reasons for buying one are often based more on emotion than necessarily anything practical. I think the same could be said in some circles about Leica.

 

[Godfrey]

Ok I was wrong with the time. My MBP from late 2009 had no problems. A colleague could not install it on a 2008 MBP. May be an individual problem.

Nonetheless I still think that Apple is a bad role model for Leica and I don't want a "designed by Leica, made by Foxconn" sticker on the back of my camera.

Installation of OS X Mavericks on older systems depends on the processor type. Mavericks requires native 64bit operations. 2008 was the switchover from Core Duo to Core Duo 2, depending on which generation of what machine you bought, and what processor options you elected. Core Duo does not offer native 64bit operations, where Core Duo 2 does.

Cameras are not computers, and Leica is not Apple. They're not even in the same local universe fold product or resources-wise, and that kind of design/production split just doesn't work for what Leica produces, at least not what Leica produces today.

G

 

[JPSuisse]

To be fair, the OP just asked for our opinion on the quote. No need to flame him.

My opinion is that is just a bunch of idle chatter/gossip that is completely useless. An example is this part:

In the long term, Leica will move away from the rangefinder M.

Link: http://www.the.me/the-leica-predicament-2014-outlook-and-beyond/

When over the past 20 years has Leica not been trying to abandon the M-system? It seems to me like the M-system has come back in style for only the very recent past...

Who knows what they will do? Perhaps the M-system will go out of style again soon. The concept of lenses designed for the special characteristics of sensors warrants some thought regarding the future of cameras.

Until the dust settles, I will take pictures with my M8, MPs and Nikon F100...

 

[Scrambler]

ins

Why should they dislike you?

They won't care much about your views on new Leicas, but they'll be happy that you like old ones.

This is something that a lot of users of old Leicas fail to understand (not you; a general observation). Why would anyone who is selling new products care very much about people who are never going to buy those products? Apart from general, vague goodwill?

Cheers,

R.

Which is why, in my humble and almost completely un-informed opinion, Leica would be happy with Sony's a7/R release. Sony are clearly moving in the direction of ditching SLR viewing, after being the third most popular SLR at one time.

What the Sonys demonstrate to the masses is that it's not required to have a mirror to have a professional image, and there are advantages to mirrorless designs which include lens compatibility across systems.

The pinnacle of mirrorless system cameras, at present, is the Leica M. Unfortunately the M is not a camera for all situations, but Sony have shown that this is possible. This in itself will attract attention to the M.

If Leica chooses to make the M an AF camera, having already added optional TTL viewing, it could become The One Camera To Rule Them All (insert evil laugh here). 😛

 

[Scrambler]

I wonder what the development costs to tune the microlens array on the existing Sony A7 or A7r for the specific task of mounting M glass would be? Sell it with a smart adapter. Call it the A7m.

+1

And it's not as if Leica hasn't worked with Minolta previously 😉

 

[hepcat]

The pinnacle of mirrorless system cameras, at present, is the Leica M. Unfortunately the M is not a camera for all situations, but Sony have shown that this is possible. This in itself will attract attention to the M.

If Leica chooses to make the M an AF camera, having already added optional TTL viewing, it could become The One Camera To Rule Them All (insert evil laugh here). 😛

Y'know... I find this to be a very "digital age" idea. Why, for the sake of argument, is the Leica M NOT a camera for all situations? And why IS Sony? And why would making another AF camera that doesn't work well make it "The One Camera?"

What makes Leica unique in the marketplace is the rangefinder/optical viewfinder/manual focus setup that is compatible across a line of nearly a hundred years of lenses and accessories. There isn't anything to differentiate any of the other recent Leica digital offerings from any other mirrorless cameras. Another autofocus, mirrorless, interchangeable lens, non-rangefinder mirrorless camera? What would the brand benefit from that?

 

[Pioneer]

If I were an investor the size of Blackstone I think I would be more concerned with the fact that Leica is not producing cameras fast enough. Waiting a little while to fill an order is acceptable. Wait too long and people move to other cameras, somebody like Sony or Fuji.

But to be honest, I think I would rather be in Leica's position right now. They seem to be on an upswing for sales. A lot of other camera companies are already announcing reduced sales and losses. I know it is fun to speculate on where Leica may be going in the future but at least it appears they have a future.

 

[semilog]

Apple is not known for a continuous support of their products. New Software runs only on the newest OS but that does not run on your 3 or 4 year old computer for example.

I'm typing this using the latest version of OS X on a 2010 MacBook Air. Even for my older gear that cannot run the very latest version of OS X, Apple continues to provide maintenance and security updates. I have a MacBook Pro from 2007 that is still in almost daily use.

 

[semilog]

Maybe Harley-Davidson might be a better comparison?

Leica, at least, has demonstrated its technical superiority on a number of fronts. I don't think you can say that for HD. Especially since they shuttered Buell.

 

[semilog]

Leica must really dislike photographers like me, sold off all my M gear years ago and now happily go through life with a single Tri-X filled M3 and version-II 50 lux......that shares a bag with an XPan and X100S.

Not even remotely tempted by any other Leica gear.

I'm down to an M6 a CLE, and 4 lenses. And I'm planning to sell two of those. And an X-E1. I plan to get another X-E1…

 

[thegman]

Y'know... I find this to be a very "digital age" idea. Why, for the sake of argument, is the Leica M NOT a camera for all situations? And why IS Sony? And why would making another AF camera that doesn't work well make it "The One Camera?"

What makes Leica unique in the marketplace is the rangefinder/optical viewfinder/manual focus setup that is compatible across a line of nearly a hundred years of lenses and accessories. There isn't anything to differentiate any of the other recent Leica digital offerings from any other mirrorless cameras. Another autofocus, mirrorless, interchangeable lens, non-rangefinder mirrorless camera? What would the brand benefit from that?

Much as I like rangefinders and Leicas, I'd say that they've never been the tool for all situations, digital or not. They don't do macro or telephoto to an acceptable standard. Also, no tilt/swing/shift, and for some, sensor/film size is too small.

But then, I can't think of any tool at all which is suitable for all situations. A Leica is suitable for most though (for me, I expect a sports photographer would think differently), and that's good enough.

I totally agree though, Leica's only real selling point right now, brand aside, is that it's a range finder, and that is a killer selling point IMHO.

 

[Rangefinderfreak]

Much as I like rangefinders and Leicas, I'd say that they've never been the tool for all situations, digital or not. They don't do macro or telephoto to an acceptable standard. Also, no tilt/swing/shift, and for some, sensor/film size is too small.

But then, I can't think of any tool at all which is suitable for all situations. A Leica is suitable for most though (for me, I expect a sports photographer would think differently), and that's good enough.

I totally agree though, Leica's only real selling point right now, brand aside, is that it's a range finder, and that is a killer selling point IMHO.

I would agree on this. I went so far with the recent aquisition: X pan hasselblad, that I modified the lens to accept a leica style focusing tab. I realized that the focusing of that Fuji lens was the same as my leica ( and Voigtländer) lenses : Infinity to the outmost right corner, 4 metres in the middle and 1,5 to the outmost left corner. That made the focusing: "From the spine" Not even Autofocus, but "automatic", you could focus when holding the camera concealed behind your coat. This is one of the reasons why Fuji, Sony etc can never compete with M body. You don`t actually have to look thru the viewfinder... You know how 35mm or 28mm angle of view will look, you can focus by the feel of the tab.. OK, this is for wide angles only, but for 85mm and up, I have nikons or hasselblad V series...

 

[Vince Lupo]

Leica, at least, has demonstrated its technical superiority on a number of fronts. I don't think you can say that for HD. Especially since they shuttered Buell.

Think I was referring to it more as a brand that some people have to have, not necessarily focusing on specifics like comparing technical superiority within its respective field etc. One thing you can definitely say is that Harley knows how to market themselves and the 'mystique' of owning a Harley. Plus the owners of the product become a 'walking advertisement' for the company with all the accoutrements that go along with owning the bike.

Roland Wolff, VP of Marketing and Corporate Retail for Leica Camera USA: "As a passion brand, Leica is not only for people who have a lot of money. I like to compare it to Harley-Davidson – it’s a passion product. There are not a few Harley owners who don’t have a lot of money, but they spend the little money they have on a Harley. It’s the same way with Leica: there are people who spend their last penny on a Leica and love it so much that they keep it on their night table."

So at least someone at Leica has made the comparison too.

 

[Steve Ash]

Wolff is absolutely right and the passion of these guys is bound to the rangefinder.

Regards,
Steve

 

[cosmonaut]

Well I agree and I don't. I do feel Leica needs to be more competitive on a line of cameras to compete against others. They can still make their M line and keep it traditional.
I think electronic cameras are far to complex and the market far to big to still rely on hand made cameras. I think it's got to the point instead of effecting the end product in a positive way it's now become a negative one. Humans make more mistakes than machines do now and take to long to make the product and keep it price worthy.
The world didn't stop turning when AF was invented and it's came a long way since. If you don't like AF there's the off button. Is a non Leica camera hits the market with no IS many are turned off and won't buy it. The new a7/7R has caught a lot of slack for not having it in body. There is some sort if misconception and many believe it should not only be stabilized but in the body and the lens.
But I think Leica also has a nice profit line and strong customer base. If I ran their company they would most likely go bankrupt.

 

[Rangefinderfreak]

I have had a M-leica since 1968... When I look at my images (www.jukkavatanen.fi) I think: What do you need for a "good image" ? I would be perfectly happy if I could have the standard and quality of my images from the 60`s, 70`s even 1980... what did my cameras have then ? just the bare essentials: Time-aperture-Focusing.. Just the same as M8, M9...
OK Kodachrome is gone, so is most of the good Fuji E-6 films, what do we have? A sensor.. It is not "perfect" in a sense kodachrome was, but adequate... There is still room for "improvement" but not much. The M-M is in a sense "ready" So much as the Hassy CFV was touted as "replacement for film" it was not! actually a bore... The M4-6-MP are GREAT... Nothing to improve, nothing to change. The images are just like they were in 1968 and onwards...

 

[Steve Ash]

I think there is a big misconception about the meaning of hand-made. At Leica there is no compromise on precision just to claim for the hand-made adjective as many presume. Leica is operating high precision machines in most parts of the factory. In the example of lens grinding the machines grind single lens glass elements only while at competitors grinding is done on a bunch of lens elements in one step compromising on the tolerances.

Regards,
Steve