photogdave
Shops local
...to me.
I had the opportunity to chat with a technical rep from Leica NJ at a camera store today. He let me handle his upgraded (shutter only) M8 demo and compare it to a stock M8. WOW! Night and day! It sounds sooo much quieter in real life compared to the audio downloads. The lack of shutter vibration is easily noticeable as well. Feels like a completely different camera.
He also explained to me that part of the reason for the expense of the upgrade is that the cameras actually go back to to the assembly line for the CLA so they can pass all the same quality control checks they originally passed. (I can hear some of you laughing out there!0
This is what allows for the new two year full warranty.
Anyway, I was suitably impressed. If the day comes when I find myself the owner of an M8, probably a used one, I will definitely go for the shutter upgrade at some point.
I had the opportunity to chat with a technical rep from Leica NJ at a camera store today. He let me handle his upgraded (shutter only) M8 demo and compare it to a stock M8. WOW! Night and day! It sounds sooo much quieter in real life compared to the audio downloads. The lack of shutter vibration is easily noticeable as well. Feels like a completely different camera.
He also explained to me that part of the reason for the expense of the upgrade is that the cameras actually go back to to the assembly line for the CLA so they can pass all the same quality control checks they originally passed. (I can hear some of you laughing out there!0
This is what allows for the new two year full warranty.Anyway, I was suitably impressed. If the day comes when I find myself the owner of an M8, probably a used one, I will definitely go for the shutter upgrade at some point.
I was waiting to hear the new shutter in person before coming to a conclusion. This is the second report I've read and both were positive about the reduced shutter noise.
Tuolumne
Veteran
Sitemistic has already received an answer from Leica on this: The base camera will continue to be sold with the original shutter.
/T
/T
Ascender
Established
Random Info
Random Info
You know, after the big hoo-hah about the alleged poor noise performance of the M8 at anything over ISO 320, I never even ventured above the aforementioned ISO partly because you seldom need to with this gem of a camera and partly because I got put off by all the rhetoric. Well last Tuesday was my Birthday and I spent it in Disneyland with my only true gems in my 45 year old life ... my wife and children. We sat in the 'Blue Bayou' Restaurant in almost total darkness bar candle light so fitted with the 35 lux, I put the ISO up to 640 and fired of some shots. Well the results are breathtaking. What was particularly surprising was the retention of detail in my wife's eyes and the film like smoothness of whatever grain did appear.
Later on that evening I was on the phone with my friend who sent me a shot taken with his M8 at ISO 1250 or whatever the last two digits are. I then took some shots myself at the same ISO in dark areas of my office. Again, the retention of detail in those areas and the smoothness of the film-like grain was just astonishing and thus it brought me to this conclusion. There are just so many haters out there who live to criticize just about any attempt by anyone to achieve anything extraordinary. Unfortunately this type of bad publicity tends to have a resounding effect until one actually starts to believe it to be true.
I now LOVE the effect that shooting at ISO 1250 gives you on the M8, the detail is amazing and I cannot wait to upgrade to the bigger sensor if and when it comes out because you gotta believe they will probably bump up the pixel count to 12MP and some (please Lieca no more than that, we just don't need it for that type of camera).
On another note, I treated myself to a 1Dsmklll, a Contax 645, some 'R' series glass (60mm macro and the 28mm angulon). I have to tell you that the 1Dsmk3 has to be seen to be believed. The images that come straight out of the camera untouched take you breath away, they simply do not need post processing of the correction nature. A lot of people are quick to shoot that camera down saying that unless you are going to print bigger than 16x24, why on earth would you need so many pixels and such unmanageable file sizes? Ahh... but what they don't talk about is the astounding depth and multi-dimensional image quality, not to mention tonal sensation, that one gets at an 8x10 comparative to lets say to that of a 12MP sensor.
Anyway, that's all I've got.
-charlie
Random Info
You know, after the big hoo-hah about the alleged poor noise performance of the M8 at anything over ISO 320, I never even ventured above the aforementioned ISO partly because you seldom need to with this gem of a camera and partly because I got put off by all the rhetoric. Well last Tuesday was my Birthday and I spent it in Disneyland with my only true gems in my 45 year old life ... my wife and children. We sat in the 'Blue Bayou' Restaurant in almost total darkness bar candle light so fitted with the 35 lux, I put the ISO up to 640 and fired of some shots. Well the results are breathtaking. What was particularly surprising was the retention of detail in my wife's eyes and the film like smoothness of whatever grain did appear.
Later on that evening I was on the phone with my friend who sent me a shot taken with his M8 at ISO 1250 or whatever the last two digits are. I then took some shots myself at the same ISO in dark areas of my office. Again, the retention of detail in those areas and the smoothness of the film-like grain was just astonishing and thus it brought me to this conclusion. There are just so many haters out there who live to criticize just about any attempt by anyone to achieve anything extraordinary. Unfortunately this type of bad publicity tends to have a resounding effect until one actually starts to believe it to be true.
I now LOVE the effect that shooting at ISO 1250 gives you on the M8, the detail is amazing and I cannot wait to upgrade to the bigger sensor if and when it comes out because you gotta believe they will probably bump up the pixel count to 12MP and some (please Lieca no more than that, we just don't need it for that type of camera).
On another note, I treated myself to a 1Dsmklll, a Contax 645, some 'R' series glass (60mm macro and the 28mm angulon). I have to tell you that the 1Dsmk3 has to be seen to be believed. The images that come straight out of the camera untouched take you breath away, they simply do not need post processing of the correction nature. A lot of people are quick to shoot that camera down saying that unless you are going to print bigger than 16x24, why on earth would you need so many pixels and such unmanageable file sizes? Ahh... but what they don't talk about is the astounding depth and multi-dimensional image quality, not to mention tonal sensation, that one gets at an 8x10 comparative to lets say to that of a 12MP sensor.
Anyway, that's all I've got.
-charlie
photogdave
Shops local
Charlie,
I agree with what you say about the high ISO noise on the M8. The "issue" is blown way out of proportion and even some basic corrections of RAW files give very nice high ISO images.
But the discussion here is about the audible noise of the shutter. I know you know the difference!
I agree with what you say about the high ISO noise on the M8. The "issue" is blown way out of proportion and even some basic corrections of RAW files give very nice high ISO images.
But the discussion here is about the audible noise of the shutter. I know you know the difference!
Ascender
Established
Oops.....
Oops.....
Oops, sorry buddy, I understand that, that was not the topic of discussion. I just had a momentary burst of enthusiasm and didn't know where else to post the randomness other than starting a whole, new thread just for that .... seemed a bit pointless.
Point taken,
-ostracized charlie
Oops.....
photogdave said:Charlie,
I agree with what you say about the high ISO noise on the M8. The "issue" is blown way out of proportion and even some basic corrections of RAW files give very nice high ISO images.
But the discussion here is about the audible noise of the shutter. I know you know the difference!
Oops, sorry buddy, I understand that, that was not the topic of discussion. I just had a momentary burst of enthusiasm and didn't know where else to post the randomness other than starting a whole, new thread just for that .... seemed a bit pointless.
Point taken,
-ostracized charlie
Speenth
Emmaiter
Tuolumne said:
... and that reveals the rep's words for what they were, sales hype. If a significant proportion of the cost of the 'new' shutter is assembly, then it would be an insignificant further cost to fit as original spec'.
I've read on the Leica Users forum that LFI Germany says the expensive upgrade is merely an adjustment to spring tension. If this proves to be true, the rep will be revealed as complicit in a scam.
I'll not even consider this upgrade until the facts are known .... and even then I'll expect to have all 1,000 Euros worth of the original shutter and its associated gubbins returned to me with my stunningly quieter M8 - after all, I paid at least 1,000 Euro for them!
Last edited:
Tuolumne
Veteran
I guess you guys are too young to remember when IBM card readers were upgraded to faster models by having the rubber belt moved from one pulley to another to make it run faster. You paid your money - you got your faster card reader. It's none of your business what magic goes on behind the scenes.
/T
/T
For what it is worth, I very much enjoyed reading your post Charlie, puts things into perspective, which doesn't always happen around here, it seems.
What you described is what photography should be...enjoyable to those who partake of it, which you clearly accomplished. Bravo.
What you described is what photography should be...enjoyable to those who partake of it, which you clearly accomplished. Bravo.
Dammit, I'm not upgrading until I know all the magic, and I must get all the (otherwise useless) parts back, too! Heh
Speenth
Emmaiter
sitemistic said:I've also seen several posts around the web that the cost of the original shutter was only a couple of hundred dollars, anyway, so tossing it was no big deal. Whose making these cheap shutters for Leica, Pananasonic?
Perhaps its more the case that Panasonic commissioned its German Bling division to develop a camera to field test Panasonic shutters ...
pizzahut88
Well-known
The shutter unit upgrade is for me difficult to decide.
The upgrade will forgo the top speed . . . useful for using fast lenses wide open in broad daylight. But how often? That even I am not certain.
Faster flash sync is also useful during the day . . . . more so when again using lenses wide open.
But when I shooting stealth in subway . . . the noise does give me away sometimes.
But only when there are stations which are extremely quiet . . far and few.
The subway is so noisy here.
The upgrade will forgo the top speed . . . useful for using fast lenses wide open in broad daylight. But how often? That even I am not certain.
Faster flash sync is also useful during the day . . . . more so when again using lenses wide open.
But when I shooting stealth in subway . . . the noise does give me away sometimes.
But only when there are stations which are extremely quiet . . far and few.
The subway is so noisy here.
Last edited:
Cindy Flood
Established
I still want to hear the final details before I decide. I'm not crazy about spending that much money on this. There have been many times (during weddings, dinners, performances, on the street) where I have wished for a quieter shutter, but I also enjoy the faster shutter speed because I live in sunny places all year. The big reason to consider it for me is that I am on M8 #3. This one was new (to me anyway) in October, 2007, but my original warranty runs out the first of November. I'm a little skittish about not being under warranty (even though this new one is working flawlessly) considering the past history (SDS, faulty sensor and LCD). The M8 is the camera for me in spite of these problems, I'm just wishing that Leica would announce another upgrade option before I have to put out my money.
photogdave
Shops local
Well I certainly agree the upgrade is a fair chunk of change, as is the camera in the first place. The way the Leica tech rep (NOT sales rep) broke it down for me made it seem a little more justifiable.
If you break your shutter and have to have Leica replace it (yes we know the shutter is not actually broken): approx $400
If you break the screen and have to have Leica replace it (the whole back of the camera has to be replaced, not just the glass): approx $300
Full factory CLA from Leica: $300
Extended 2 year manufacturer warranty: approx $300
So we're getting pretty close to the cost already and the upgrade cost includes shipping to and from your door and there is no extra tax.
I'm not defending the price of the upgrade, just saying the pill has been made a little easier to swallow IMO.
I'll say again, the reduced vibration of the new shutter is a tangible benefit you can actually feel when using the camera.
If you break your shutter and have to have Leica replace it (yes we know the shutter is not actually broken): approx $400
If you break the screen and have to have Leica replace it (the whole back of the camera has to be replaced, not just the glass): approx $300
Full factory CLA from Leica: $300
Extended 2 year manufacturer warranty: approx $300
So we're getting pretty close to the cost already and the upgrade cost includes shipping to and from your door and there is no extra tax.
I'm not defending the price of the upgrade, just saying the pill has been made a little easier to swallow IMO.
I'll say again, the reduced vibration of the new shutter is a tangible benefit you can actually feel when using the camera.
Ben Z
Veteran
sitemistic said:
Not with the M8, 160 is as low as she'll go. And the lowest (as well as the highest) ISO on some digitals (like my 20D) aren't really true sensor ISO's they're some kind of firmware trickery and the dynamic range suffers.
It's interesting what you relate about d.o.f. Most of the time for most of the shots I do (landscapes, cityscapes , general travel shots) I also go for as much d.o.f. as I can get. But many times I do want to emphasize a subject by using selective focus. My DLux3 has great d.o.f. but no way to narrow it down, but it's just my backup/snapshot camera. For my main camera and especially when I've paid $5000 for it and roughly $1000 each for lenses, I want my shooting options as flexible as possible.
rsl
Russell
sitemistic said:
Yes, and it weeded out the weak photographers in a hurry.
furcafe
Veteran
Well, a lot of photographers today are still enamored with B&W, even though there have been many good color films available for the past few decades.
sitemistic said:
furcafe
Veteran
My experience has been similar. The M8 is certainly louder than any film M, but seems to be about the same as, e.g., the Hexar RF & its mechanical cousin, the Contax G2, with their film advance noise. It's also still quieter than any of the dSLR's I've encountered (D70, 5D).
Since I don't shoot in a lot of super-quiet environments, the term "upgrade" is a misnomer to me. Leica should have just called it the "luxury package" or something; then the standard shutter could be the "sport package."
Since I don't shoot in a lot of super-quiet environments, the term "upgrade" is a misnomer to me. Leica should have just called it the "luxury package" or something; then the standard shutter could be the "sport package."
Ben Z said:
What do you mean by 'out of focus?' I don't understand why someone would spend money on all this pricey gear, and shoot out of focus?
Do you really mean 'shoot wide open?'
Do you really mean 'shoot wide open?'
Available darkness is one thing, but if one isn't going to even bother with focus, that's just going too far.