Canon LTM The Mighty Canon P -- contrasted with M7

Canon M39 M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
If Julian is burning batteries in his M7 then he's probably shooting a lot. I think maybe they're supposed to last for 60-70 rolls? Can't remember. I get my batteries for my M6 & M7 from Zbattery at the link below. Bought a pile 2 years ago and still have 1/2 of them left. The shelf life of lithium is around 10 years or so.

Sanyo CR-1/3N 3V Lithium Battery

 
I'll give you that I probably had a bad example, at least regarding the advance motion, but as to the viewfinder, most Ps' I've looked at over the past few years (about 5 cameras?) are rather "hazy."

Jim Bielecki
 
P for me

P for me

jlw said:
Meanwhile, in all fairness to the M7:

  • The viewfinder is clearer and more contrasty.
  • The rangefinder spot has sharply defined edges.
  • The finder frames are easier to see under difficult lighting conditions.
  • You can use either screwmount or M-mount lenses.
  • The shutter is a bit quieter.
  • Auto exposure is nice to have sometimes, even if it does eat batteries.
  • Um, that's about it...
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And in all fairness to the P - I would hope so, with what an additional 40+ years camera development in the M7.... and remember the P wasn't Canon's top of the range model at the time.
 
julianphotoart said:
The Canon P of course has no battery. Perfect. My lowly CV light-meter has had the SAME single battery for the entire 6 years I've had it. Contrast that with the THREE sets of batteries my M7 has gone through in NINE damn months. Ugh.QUOTE]

M7 is a high maintainance camera, same goes with expensive cars, cameras, girlfirends...


Mackinaw said:
I'll probably be flamed for this big time but I never understood the attraction of the Canon P. I had one for a short time several years back and hated the viewfinder so much I sold the camera. Plus the build quality was suspect (very rough film advance lever motion). If you're talking Canon, the L1 is a sleeper (see Dechert's comments in his book) but the 7/7s/7sZ series easily wins the prize for operability with their excellent viewfinders. But, truth be told, 99% percent of my pictures the past year or so have been taken with my Leica MP. There's just something about the solidity, build quality and superb viewfinder of the Leica that have made it my camera of choice.

Jim Bielecki
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Agress on the operability of the 7/7s. Yellow framelines would be even better.
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Mackinaw said:
I'll probably be flamed for this big time but I never understood the attraction of the Canon P. I had one for a short time several years back and hated the viewfinder so much I sold the camera. Plus the build quality was suspect (very rough film advance lever motion).
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You definitely had a bad one, then. On a good P, the advance is just as smooth as on the 7/7s/7sz. I think Canon's film advance is smoother than Leica's (Leica has that definite "push" at the end) although I admit the last Leica I owned was a Canadian-made M4-P, so maybe they've improved them since then.

I agree that the viewfinder isn't for everyone, and that a modern projected-frame, collimated-patch RF/VF (as found on Leica, Bessa, Leitz/Minolta CL and Minolta CLE) is more comfortable to use. And for sure, if a genie came out of a bottle and said to me, "Would you rather I give you this Leica MP, or this Canon P?" I would pick the Leica in a moment (and kick myself every time I had to rewind film with the @#$% knob!)

But there's no getting around the fact that the P is a very appealing camera in terms of combining vintage look and feel with a good combination of modern features (e.g. finder frames, crank rewind, and a single shutter-speed dial, which the L-series lacks.)
 
Will said:
Agress on the operability of the 7/7s. Yellow framelines would be even better.
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Put a yellow gel inside the frosted window and you're set!
 
Mackinaw said:
I'll give you that I probably had a bad example, at least regarding the advance motion, but as to the viewfinder, most Ps' I've looked at over the past few years (about 5 cameras?) are rather "hazy."

Jim Bielecki
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I'll give you that. Some of it may be cleaning, but some of it is that you have to look through a semi-reflecting surface, because of the way the framelines are reflected into the finder (although this doesn't bother some people.)

A projected-frame finder gives a cleaner-looking image. But start with a Canon P and add a projected frame finder, and you wind up with a Canon 7. Not that that's a bad thing IMO, but it's definitely a less sparsely elegant camera.
 
"I would try to figure out what is going on with the Leica M7. My Nikon EL2 and Nikkormat ELw's also use PX28's."

The correct battery for the M7 are two lithium DL1/3 batteries, I'm not sure if you could manouver the PX28 through the chamber, you could put in 4 LR/SR44 batteries in pairs carefully but they would not last as long as the correct ones. One problem is that the DL1/3 is not as readily available as some other camera batteries. I got a few spares quite cheap over the net.
 
People used to complain long and loud about the "damn" battery consumption of the M6 and M6TTL, until it became common knowledge that the meter should be turned off before putting the camera in the bag. I'm not sure how you turn off the M7. On the M6 or M6TTL it is by turning the shutter dial to the B or Off position, respectively. (Leica added the previously supefluous Off position to the M6TTL for the sake of people who either didn't read the manual or else bought used, didn't get a manual, and didn't look at internet resources, such as reviews, which might have contained this information.) Of course, maybe the M7 does eat batteries, but I don't recall seeing any complaints about it before, which is surprising since it's so much fun to try to find design flaws in Leicas. If it keeps on doing this, I would certainly complain to Solms. AE should take a little more juice than a mere meter, but it shouldn't be so great that it's a damn nuisance.

Richard
 
The PX28 is nothing more than 4 SR-44's (same as MS76) or 2 DL1/3 in a casing. I have unwrapped them to get the MS76 Silver Oxide batteries for my daughters toys. The local Ritz had a bunch on clearance for 75cents each and I stocked up. I have also taken them apart for the F2's. But, the PX28 Lithium and 2 DL1/3's pack the same punch.

Now for the P vs Leica: The closest camera that I have to the P is the VI-T. The viewfinder was hazy when I got it, and after a CLA it is crystal clean. Likewise with my M3DS, hazy then came back after CLA like a heads-up display. We are talking about 45 year old cameras. The film advance on my M3DS and M3SS is exceptionally smooth, as are the Canon's. If you got one with "blown gears" or one that has not been serviced, expect some roughage.

We need a line of T-Shirts.

Canon P
Leica M3
Nikon SP
And the Canon 7 with 50mm F0.95 labeled "Size Counts in the Dark".
 
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richard_l said:
People used to complain long and loud about the "damn" battery consumption of the M6 and M6TTL, until it became common knowledge that the meter should be turned off before putting the camera in the bag. I'm not sure how you turn off the M7. On the M6 or M6TTL it is by turning the shutter dial to the B or Off position, respectively.
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My M6 still has the battery that came with it when I bought it (used). Still going strong, and I've shot I think about 30-40 rolls (I'm being conservative here). I'm not in the habit of setting the dial to "B", but something tells me that maybe, just maybe some users don't understand the basic principle of "shutter cocked=meter on", and if you just like to keep your finger pressing on the shutter, well, that's not the camera's fault at all.

Just like those people that like to hit the brakes before switching lanes on the freeways/roads, or like to play with the brake a lot, I'm sure their gas mileage is horrendous, and surely would blame the car on the performance rather than their driving habits (oxymoron).

Anyway, that's why I am a strong supporter of all-mechanical cameras. The main reason why I got the M6 (which is black) was that it's more discreet than the M2 + lightmeter on top; nice balance, all things considered.

Had the Canon 7's lightmeter been reliable I would not have debated at all to give it back. I may take a second look at the Canon P, but I am solidly sold on Canon's 7 & 7s bodies, outside of Leica's, given my needs and preferences. I would surely consider a Canon 7 or P before I would even consider a Leica III (or, yes, a Leica M4-2 or M4-P) were they to be all in front of me.
 
Now, here comes the rant about the Mercedes. Does the Mercedes really take me to other place faster? Is it really a better car? Is its engine better than the Honda? I'll tell you ONE difference for sure -- its damn gas consumption. My Yugo of course has small engine. Perfect. My lowly Yugo has had the SAME single tank of gas for the entire 1 month I've had filled. Contrast that with the THREE tanks of gas my Mercedes has gone through in ONE damn months. Ugh.
 
backalley photo said:
i'm thinking of getting t-shirts made with just a large p on the front!

joe:)
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Just make sure the t-shirt is not orange, Joe ;).
 
my 3 viewfinders are very clear but the last one i bought just glows, so i realize there is a difference.
i love that my cameras are old. maybe it's the novelty as these are the only non new cameras i have bought and use consistently. up till now it was new or nothing.

my advances are all smooth and the view with the 3 framelines doesn't seem to bother me in the least. it's easier to 'preview' than hitting a lever on the body, plus i use a 35mm lens 95% of the time so i'm just plain used to it.
and even with a leica there are sometimes 2 framelines showing at a time, no?

i love the look of the p, way better than a 7 and somewhat better than an m camera. i would pick an m2 or m3 over the 7, so it's not a brand thing for me.
i don't even consider the quality differences of the lenses. i figure that if my lenses made it this far then the build quality goes without saying. and i just pray that my skill could match the len's quality for sharpness and character.
i have seen fuzzy pics of pets, kids and landscapes taken with leica glass that cost more than my car.
i am a realist with no illusions of great book deals or magazine covers or sleeping with starlets. (ok, 2 out of 3 ;)) my gear is just fine for me and i doubt even if i could afford anything, i wanted that i would change. (easily said, i know)

i'm just glad we all have that wonderful thing called choice. the ability to choose what pleases us.
i prefer to satisfy my needs as much as possible as i assume that most of you do also.

the p makes me happy and does what i ask of it.
is there more?

joe
 
i have 3 so i COULD send one off for a paint job, maybe someday, but it's not a great need at the moment.

beside i have a stealth cam in the making...:)

joe
 
Seriously, though, I agree with Joe. It's all a matter of choice - what YOU like, and what YOU are comfortable with using. You can take crappy pictures with a Leica just as you can with a Nikon or a Canon, etc. And you can take great photos with an $30 FSU. That has nothing to do with the smoothness of the film advance or the photo.do rating of the lens. As we tend to use RF's for pleasure, use what you enjoy.
 
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