The much maligned Leica M5

[Mhintlian]

I have had a Leica M4, and then an M5. Having had both the smaller M body and then the larger M5 body over the years I have developed a true appreciation for the engineering and design of the M5. Yes it's big but fits just right in my hands. Shutter speed wheel is right where it should be, at my fingertip. The heft of the body gives a solid feel and really is quite comfortable. Complaints about the battery issue are really a lot of noise and that particular dilemma has been resolved. The ergonomics of the camera are really well thought out and in comparison to the smaller body M cameras rivals there compactness in providing a body you can comfortably hold on to. However, the true advantage is the behind the lens metering which was the hallmark of the M5.

I know this is pretty much a one sided point of view but like the rest of us Leica fans whether its a IIIG, M2, M5, of M10 it's not the camera but the person behind it!. Love the M5 and although I have an M9 the M5 is the first one I reach for. Just sayin.

 

[Guth]

As a fellow "orphan Leica" (thus labeled by the forum's founder) owner myself, I can sympathize to some extent. But consider that enthusiasts like to nitpick the objects of their attention to death regardless of what particular object has captured their interest. This applies to almost anything you can imagine and that obviously includes cameras. Narrowing the focus (no pun intended) down to Leica cameras and Leica M film cameras in particular still results in seemingly endless debate of almost topic you can imagine. Chalk it up to human nature. People can debate the relative merits and shortcomings of these cameras all they like, but I'll always feel incredibly fortunate to own a Leica film camera, period.

Yet for some, only a M3 will do, while others prefer the M4, or the M2, or the MP, and on and on. However, you've hit upon at least one thing that can't really be debated and that is the fact that certain cameras work better for some individuals based solely on the ergonomics of the camera's design. That the M5 might work better for some due to it's size and the design differences that set it apart from the rest of the M cameras shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. Plus, it's not like Leica built a bad film camera, so as long as you enjoy using the camera what's not to love?

Obviously your sentiment that the person operating the camera is the most important element in the mix is spot on (much to my dismay). But using a camera that you actually enjoy creating images with (be it a Leica or countless other possibilities, be they analog or digital) certainly doesn't take anything away from the process.

 

[nickthetasmaniac]

Is the M5 still maligned?

I know it’s copped some flack historically, but nowadays all I seem to read about the M5 is praise. Personally I’d love to try one 🙂

 

[Guth]

Is the M5 still maligned?

A better question might be: Are there any M cameras that Leicaphiles don't malign, at least to some degree?

 

[Rob-F]

A better question might be: Are there any M cameras that Leicaphiles don't malign, at least to some degree?

It might have something to do with this: The German philosopher Frederick Nietzsche made the remark, "We hear new music, poorly." Maybe this is true not only of music. Might it also be true of cameras?

 

[Erik van Straten]

Another much maligned and underestimated Leica item is the first version of the Summilux 50mm f/1.4. It is however much better than the second version. The reason for the introduction of the v2 is that the copyright of the v1 was in the hands of the designer of the lens, Taylor, Taylor and Hobson. Leitz had to pay TTH for every copy they sold. That is why Leitz designed their own version, but that lens, the v2, is not really sharp at full aperture and has a lot of barrel vault distortion. The v1 is much better, a beautiful lens.

Erik.

 

[jmilkins]

I'm fond of my M5s and appreciate the thought that went into them from a users perspective, especially the meter and protruding shutter speed dial.

I understand some feel it is a heavyweight, but so it the Typ 240 and that camera's benefit is liveview that (for me) is that it lets me use a .5 m minimum focus in the CV35 f1.2, when I want to.

Everyone's cookie crumbles in a different way/ YMMV/ if the hat fits/horses for courses /diff'rent strokes etc etc

 

[ccstearns]

I was late to the Leica game, my first set-up was the Leitz CL. Then the M4, then M3. Each of these cameras I shot for years and traveled the world with (and kept them all too). I then got a crazy good deal on a M5.

I often relate photography and technology, I fully understand that the world we see is often made in response to the images we make of the world and thus the technology used in photographing the world is a partner.

Leica seems to be a slow accept change company but it made a real leap with the M5 and it makes me wonder what the M6 could/should have been and not just a metered/modern M3. That might sound like I'm hating on the M6 and I'm...not...directly. Ive just always been surprised to see the risk that Leica took with the M5 (plus adding meters) that then (due to market/sales) resulted in a regression of design. The M3/2/4 body style worked, just go backward.

Thorsten von Overgaard is right when he says, when Leica owners say they want new, they really want old. The M3 impact on the Leica brand is impressive and damning.The M5 is a sad tale, for me, it's the perfect film camera for me and I understand it's not for everyone. The M6 we didn't get could have pushed rangefinder design forward.

M5 forever.

 

[css9450]

Leica seems to be a slow accept change company .....Ive just always been surprised to see the risk that Leica took with the M5 (plus adding meters) that then (due to market/sales) resulted in a regression of design. The M3/2/4 body style worked, just go backward.

Thorsten von Overgaard is right when he says, when Leica owners say they want new, they really want old.

I agree 100%. I've said many times here on the forum, the M5 floundered in the marketplace because it didn't look like those that came before it. It is no coincidence that they went right back to the M2/M3/M4 shape after the M5 experiment was over.

 

[Guth]

Everyone's cookie crumbles in a different way/ YMMV/ if the hat fits/horses for courses /diff'rent strokes/ just my 2c etc etc

LOL, exactly.

 

[twvancamp]

The forum has a few good M5 threads, including this lengthy one.

As someone said, I don't think the camera gets much hate these days, just some people copying and pasting the details of its poor sales, etc. I've never heard anything but praise from people who have actually shot the M5.

Junku Nishimura on the M5: "The Leica M5 is appreciably different from the Leica M6 in stability against blur due to slow shutter. It is rare with M6 that I take shots at 1/8 second, which I do not hesitate to do with M5. Also, it is nicer to touch when you hold it in your palm than a woman’s skin is, I gather. However, it is too heavy with a Summarit on."

It's so well made and the size/weight aren't much of an issue for me. I just love using this camera. If I have a complaint it's that the M5 doesn't fit squarely into the Leica ecosystem, so lots of accessories and even a handful of lenses can't be used. The upshot here is you can't spend money on these things!

My M5 is starting to lose its framelines, so that will need to be repaired at some point.

 

[Rob-F]

The M6 we didn't get could have pushed rangefinder design forward.

What is this M6 we didn't get? Something that would have been like the M5?

 

[ccstearns]

What is this M6 we didn't get? Something that would have been like the M5?

I don't mean to be glib but, my point is, we don't know.

I know there is a lot of love for the M6, and rightly so. All I'm trying to suggest is that Leica, due to the failure of the M5, reverted back to the M3/4 to make the M6 and I wonder that if the M5 had been a success, what would the M6 be like. It might be exactly what it is, or it might not be.

 

[Orthogonal]

What is this M6 we didn't get? Something that would have been like the M5?

There was an M6 prototype that combined the form factor of the traditional M with some of the ergonomics and styling of the M5: https://filmphotograph.com/leica-m6-electronic-1979

Personally I'm a bit disappointed it never made it to production since I'm quite a fan of the shutter speed dial position, though that said since it has the (IMO) over-complicated and not especially reliable metering-arm plus the electronics of the R4 would mean that if they were made it's likely that many of them would now be non-functional.

I'm probably being overly pedantic but I think it's a bit disappointing that Leica gave up on the M5 design wholesale when certain aspects of the design just seem to be objectively better.

 

[raydm6]

There was an M6 prototype that combined the form factor of the traditional M with some of the ergonomics and styling of the M5: https://filmphotograph.com/leica-m6-electronic-1979

Personally I'm a bit disappointed it never made it to production since I'm quite a fan of the shutter speed dial position, though that said since it has the (IMO) over-complicated and not especially reliable metering-arm plus the electronics of the R4 would mean that if they were made it's likely that many of them would now be non-functional.

I'm probably being overly pedantic but I think it's a bit disappointing that Leica gave up on the M5 design wholesale when certain aspects of the design just seem to be objectively better.

Wow! I never knew this existed. I have an early M6. Interesting seeing this earlier variant. Thanks!

 

[ccstearns]

I didn't know about that prototype either, how cool! Thanks for sharing and what I find so interesting is the boxy body of the M5 and the shutter speed design is similar to the Minolta CLE.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

I have an M5, which I really, really like. It really is an evolution of the M2-3-4 design in terms of how it feels in the hand and how it functions. Unfortunately, the earlier design was more beautiful, and I think the M5 suffered as a result. Just MHO, of course.

 

[KoNickon]

It might have something to do with this: The German philosopher Frederick Nietzsche made the remark, "We hear new music, poorly." Maybe this is true not only of music. Might it also be true of cameras?

Probably true, when you consider how many folks on this forum obsess about how loud a camera's shutter is....

The Nietzsche quote reminds me of Mark Twain's line, "I understand Wagner's music is better than it sounds."

More on point, Leica users seem to be a pretty conservative lot (in terms of openness to new designs anyway), and I think that largely has dictated Leica's form factor over the years. The M5 was in many respects a "clean slate" design, and it seems to have been a bridge too far for a lot of the faithful. That, combined with the added cost of the M5 and the fact the market was very much driven by SLRs at the time, dictated a reversion to the M3/2/4 style.

 

[pyeh]

That prototype M6, based on the R4, is almost exactly an upsized CL. Very interesting.
For me, the M5 is an astoundingly cleverly designed camera, and I agree it's a shame that Leica got backed into a styling corner that remains till this day with their digital Ms, which bear no relationship to the original film roll generated design.
The only thing about the M5 is that it is inordinately oversized, for no apparent reason. Aren't its mechanics more or less the same as other Ms? The swinging meter arm can't be the reason for its bigness surely.

 

[Takkun]

Another M5 fan here. Bought one off eBay from a fellow RFFer 6 years ago as an upgrade from the Bessa, and that had me hooked.

Agreed that there aren't a lot of people out there that openly malign it these days. The hypercritical Leica fanbase has many more things to nitpick over. Mostly when I'm out and about and I encounter another Leica user, they're fascinated.

I love everything about it. The body shape is perfect for me, and I think it looks modern without going the Luigi Colani route Canon did. Ratcheted rewind on the bottom plate that doesn't get caught in your strap? Strap lugs on the side? Shutter dial I don't have to fiddle around for? Hell yes.

I also own a digital M that I use professionally, and I still prefer the M5's VF display. It boggles my mind that I can't see my shutter speed or an exposure scale beyond 3 LEDs like its some kind of cheap student camera.

There's been a few times where I've been presented the option to trade up to a M6, but I just can't bear to part with it.