the ongoing saga of my miserable m8 purchase...

Can you tell us the name of the dealer in NY that was not helpful. Just as Tony and Steve have won good accolades, it is also good to know who not to do business with. Some time ago, I had purchased new old stock of M7 with the older finder. It got dust in it. I sent it to Leica NJ. I told them I was a long time Leica user etc. Instead of charging me for the price of the newer finder, they replaced it for me at no charge, and sent it back to me next day air at their cost since I was soon going on a trip. Sorry to hear that this kind of service from two years ago has changed so much. Best of luck.
 
Prosaic said:
...?
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it arrived friday with no battery, no charger nothing. so i left it at the shop, not accpeting it until i speak with leica. THUS no m8.

if you scrol up a bit you'll see why i didn't buy from jean. when i was ready to buy i telephoned to see if they had any in stock and they didn't. jean was away and they had no idea when they would get any... thus ny. jean has been working at getting it resolved for me even though i did not purchase from him (the m8 at least).
 
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Phoenix said:
Can you tell us the name of the dealer in NY that was not helpful. Just as Tony and Steve have won good accolades, it is also good to know who not to do business with. Some time ago, I had purchased new old stock of M7 with the older finder. It got dust in it. I sent it to Leica NJ. I told them I was a long time Leica user etc. Instead of charging me for the price of the newer finder, they replaced it for me at no charge, and sent it back to me next day air at their cost since I was soon going on a trip. Sorry to hear that this kind of service from two years ago has changed so much. Best of luck.
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that's an interesting story as i also informed leica usa (new jersey) of my impending trip abroad and they proceeded to do absolutely NOTHING. multiple times i said i would really like it for my trip and they said "no problem"... however it was a problem obviously. i'm glad though, really... that you had a great experience.

i have mentioned the dealers name a few times and really don't want to continue to do so. the dealer did, for the record offer to replace it but i did not want to incur more cost shipping the camera back and forth and they were unwilling to cover it or offer any other solutions. it was a considerable amount to ship back and forth and i really couldn't afford to spend another chunk of dough after the m8 purchase. if you read the posts over the last page you will find the dealers name. it is very important to remember that leica promised to "take care of it" and "return it the following week"... as well as a few more promises that never materialized.
 
May I suggest a different approach?


You would probably want to write a letter/email directly to Leica in Germany.
Start your letter with a few complements.
Give them a positive reason why you bought an M8.
Then describe your trouble.
End the letter by stating that you do not think this non-responsive attitude,
you have received so far, serves well to their benefit.
The letter should sound calm and rational.


Based on my experience, this approach is likely to
resolve the problem to your satisfaction fairly quickly.
Good luck,
Zoran
 
jaapv said:
If you had to rely on the M8 professionally, you would have at least two, like you would have at least two of any other brand of camera....
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In this thread, that is kind of a cop out as the SERVICE or lack there off is the TOPIC, not if a pro is backed up or not.

Most pros use camera companies that turn gear around in a week or less from doorstep and back again when repaired. Most pros also use cameras that work as *designed* as their primary rigs. And while most pros have a backup camera, not all gear is backed up in full at all times.

So professional service is what pros depend on and need.

Leica is not providing this with any of their products to any degree of efficiency so I tend to use Nikon gear for critical jobs and Leica only if well backed up by the former.

Even with it's colossal list of issues, I think the M8 is a great camera, but I often do wonder just how easy it will be to get service on it in the future.
 
km-25 you have said all that i could possibly hope to say... with that i must leave this whole mess aside amd go enjoy the rest of my weekend. thank you for all the advice and support, i will update this as it unfolds in case you're interested.
 
jaapv said:
If you had to rely on the M8 professionally, you would have at least two, like you would have at least two of any other brand of camera....
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Agreed!
But thats just it, "at least 2" is prohibitive. There is still the problem of very long delays and the lack of technical support in the UK and the alck of replacements for hire. One really should not have to rely on "waiting for thre boat to load" before equipment is sent off. So you suggest 2 bodies, how about three?

best wishes

Richard
 
sitemistic said:
Olsen, you can argue all you want that Leica hasn't raised prices. Fine. That's a non starter, though, with someone who will have to pay the additional price to buy the product. Whatever the cause, Leica equipment has become very dear, indeed, and Leica should act like it understands that.
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- Which shows how dramatic the fall of the US$ is. Airbus has laid off 10.000 workers. There is no way they can compete with Boeing. Production is reduced to 'idle'. BMW,- one of the few European car makers with a plant in USA (lucky, he?) lay off 8000 in Europe. Rumours say Mercedes is about to announce lay-offs soon too. And so on.

We know that Leica has just turned a negative result to a small positive one. But only just. The dollar fall could well spell the end of Leica...

A 10% fall of the dollar value can be met with 'cost reductions' and 'trimming of the organisation' etc. How do you meet a fall of the dollar value of 43%? Be realistic; there is no way you can reduce your cost that much. This situation is all new to European business leaders, but they try to do the best out of it; reducing cost and reducing capacity - and make cheaper models. At many businesses the atmosfare is close to panic... More than 40% of world trade is affected.

We compared Leica with Ferrari. Look it up: Ferrari has (practically) gone bankrupt every time the dollar has been low, but has been saved by a white knight every time. The Austrian Hofmann family is the white knight of Leica, but, obviously, with limited resources. We can all hope for that they have the economical stamina to carry Leica through one of the worst business crisis the company has seen.
 
People can say what they want about Canons and Nikons, but personally with each of my canons I have NEVER had a problem, even after probably 60k shots on my 30d, and now that I've had my 5d for 2 months it has about 6k shots on it. Both have worked absolutely flawlessly. My 1d before that flawless too. My lenses have been flawless.

Here even In australia if you're registered with canon professional services (you have to make 85% of your income with and own 2 pro bodies, including the 5d), if you have to get something fixed they will usually do it within a few days, and give you a loaner body/lens in the mean time.

At some stage I'd love to buy an m8, but I definitely wouldn't just own an m8. Minimum would be 2, and I'd still feel much more comfortable with a canon/nikon dslr with me.

Imagine a wedding situation. Bride walking down the isle. You got your m8 with your beautiful summilux flipping away in silence and in the dark, and when you get home and load up your images, you find some of them have a)serious banding b)dark frames c) magenta black issues etc etc. It's not something that you can re-do.
 
sitemistic said:
Leica isn't targeting professionals with the M8. Otherwise they would provide the kind of support Nikon and Canon does for pros. Leica is targeting wealthy amateurs. Sure, a few pros use M8's, but they are not Leica's primary customer.
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I'd say that leica has always targeted the professional market. Advanced amatuers are more likely to buy the digilux or a nikon d300. Originally leica didn't need massive quick support system because their cameras were so simple/mechanical/reliable that they didn't have massive problems.

The m8 is definitely aimed at the high end of the market, it's just a shame that a good number of them have had so many problems. I don't think they anticipated the switch to a digital M to be so hard and complex, and therefor didn't consider the need for a large and efficient pro backup system.
 
One of the good things I have had dealing with Zeiss, they really to read and reply to their emails. Surprise! Believe me, for this reason alone if zeiss has a drf I would buy it in a heartbeat. My dealings with Leica, especially the branch here in China, have been far from pleasant. In fact I never have ever got a response from the Chinese branch of Leica, including when I asked them if I bought an M8 if the two IR filter thing was included here (which often is the case here in China, they dont).

Leica really has their heads up their asses if they cant even reply about a thing like that. Its a real pity....imagine if one of the other prestige companies like....Ferrari acted like this....there would be a mob outside their grounds with torches!


ps. if I was in the states I would without a doubt buy my camera from Tony, just because his record speaks volumes.
 
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infocusf8@earthlink. said:
First let me say that I completely sympathize with your situation. I work at a small camera store that is also a Leica dealer and we have 100% backing from Leica to exchange any defective cameras and send them to Leica. We, the dealer handle the problem not our customers, so I do not understand why you didn't go to your dealer first to solve this issue. You do not say who your dealer is or that you tried to contact them first even though you say it was past the return period. Out of the half dozen M8's I've sold only one had a problem and it was debris on the sensor that I saw when the customer brought in some prints to show me. He wasn't even aware of it until I mentioned it and although it was past our return policy I gave him a new one off the shelf and sent his back to Leica. I hope your situation improves but I have to say that if you were dealing with a reputable dealer then this situation would have been done with a long time ago and it certainly isn't the norm nor a reason for others to stop buying Leica products.
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I find this curious too. Who was the OPS dealer? Clearly they deserve the majority of the blame. Regardless, I hope things get worked out. Sounds like a horrible experience.

I had to go through 3 samples before getting a M8 without a problem. #1 had sudden death and #2 had a problem sensor line similar to the ops issue. Ken Hansen helped me through all this and he promptly returned the defective units to Leica NJ (he personally makes regular trips there). Kudos to Ken and other reputable Leica dealers. I'm not a pro, but Ken makes me feel like I have LPS (Leica Professional Services)!
 
newyorkone said:
I find this curious too. Who was the OPS dealer? Clearly they deserve the majority of the blame. Regardless, I hope things get worked out. Sounds like a horrible experience.

I had to go through 3 samples before getting a M8 without a problem. #1 had sudden death and #2 had a problem sensor line similar to the ops issue. Ken Hansen helped me through all this and he promptly returned the defective units to Leica NJ (he personally makes regular trips there). Kudos to Ken and other reputable Leica dealers. I'm not a pro, but Ken makes me feel like I have LPS (Leica Professional Services)!
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the original dealer has been named a few times in the thread. again, this is entirely a leica issue for me at this point. they told me "they would take care of it" and that should have been the case!
i am very, very fortunate that we have one of the best leica dealers possible here in montreal (jean at camtec) and they have been very, very gracious in their help so far.
it's monday and i'm going to start calling again today. i did recieve emails from solms stating simply that it isn't a solms issue and they will forward my inquiries to robert fisk at leicausa. round and round i go!
cheers and keep the digits crossed for me (if you don't mind)
john
 
so here's the story.
i took home the m8 body from camtec in montreal. jean, from camtec, telephoned robert fisk at leica and they will send the stuff out this week. that's pretty much it. no email's explaining events, no call's apoligizing for the delay nothing. let's not forget that thousands of follars was spent on a camera that STILL is of no good to me.
i generally feel as though leica has no real interest in my issue's and that i was essentially a "bother" or "impatient". this experience has taught me a very valuable lesson as a working photographer. buy a camera from a company that has the capacity to support it. no if ands or but's. all the huballoo about the internet about "so an so" shoot's on a leica m8 now or "professional review" of the m8 amounts to a whole bunch of bs to me. if you cannot rely on it then it simply is not a professional tool.
the leica experience this time around was extremely dissapointing and i will not be buying anything leica for some time coming.
thank you all, especially the bartender and tony for their words of wisdom and kind advice!
at this point i would like to put this miserable experience behind me (but of course i'm still waiting for the battery etc. to even use the camera).
 
Tony Rose said:
I know they have all the goodies in NJ for your camera. It has happened more times than I can remember when Leica NJ has failed to return all that was semt them. We are here to help if you hit a brick wall. I want you to be TOTALLY assured you will be taken care of when it comes to this matter. You can Email me a Popflash@gmail.com if need be.

TR🙂
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This pretty much sums up the reason I'm going to order my M8 from Tony instead of from New York. It'll cost me an extra $400 in sales tax, but the personal service afforded by Tony will make it worth while should my M8 have issues.

Thank you for sharing your story and I'm sorry for your troubles.

John
 
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nitrox1 said:
This pretty much sums up the reason I'm going to order my M8 from Tony instead of from New York. It'll cost me an extra $400 in sales tax, but the personal service afforded by Tony will make it worth while should my M8 have issues.

Thank you for sharing your story and I'm sorry for your troubles.

John
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A very fitting tribute, indeed, to Tony and his staff.

/T
 
nitrox1 said:
This pretty much sums up the reason I'm going to order my M8 from Tony instead of from New York. It'll cost me an extra $400 in sales tax, but the personal service afforded by Tony will make it worth while should my M8 have issues.

Thank you for sharing your story and I'm sorry for your troubles.

John
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It might even help if the M8 has problems.
 
in case anyone missed it tony offered to take my rather useless m8 body in exchabge for a functioning one with all the goodies!
considering i never bought it from him i'd say that pretty much sums what you can expect if you SHOULD HAPPEN to buy from him!
 
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