Grytpype
Well-known
I'm never sure about posting interesting eBay items on here before they are sold, in case it might inflate the price artificially, but for someone with very deep pockets, here is one you definitely don't see everyday!
There was an article in the Spring 1987 issue of Zeiss Historica (viewable online) on ivory enamelled Jena Contax's. I must admit when I read it I thought it could be an 'April Fool' joke, but I'm sure that journal is above such tricks. Anyway the serial numbers mentioned were 27981 and 27979, and here is 27972.
It looks exactly the same as the one pictured in the article, which also mentions rumours of a red one if you want the rarest of the rarest.
There was an article in the Spring 1987 issue of Zeiss Historica (viewable online) on ivory enamelled Jena Contax's. I must admit when I read it I thought it could be an 'April Fool' joke, but I'm sure that journal is above such tricks. Anyway the serial numbers mentioned were 27981 and 27979, and here is 27972.
It looks exactly the same as the one pictured in the article, which also mentions rumours of a red one if you want the rarest of the rarest.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
Mind, these cameras are highly unlikely to be genuine (in terms of the Leica Luxury edition), in that they neither exist in the factory books nor have been confirmed (not even as prototypes) by any Zeiss insider. Their value depends on whether you believe they might be more or less illegitimate products by the post-war Zeiss Ikon factory (e.g. one-off jobs ordered by the Soviets or made by Zeiss staff for the black market) or whether they merely were later after-market modifications for some dealer or collector.
MISH
Well-known
if the factory did not make it they should have
Grytpype
Well-known
They certainly would be relatively easy to fake, but they do all seem have the correct Jena-type front-plate, and a very convincing Carl Zeiss Jena accessory shoe. They would, of course be very easy indeed to fake if you had a spare Jena Contax lying around!
I'm 99% convinced, and from the Zeiss Historica article, some VERY much more knowledgable people than I seem fairly convinced. The theory seems to be that they were supposed to be some kind of official marketing experiment.
I'm 99% convinced, and from the Zeiss Historica article, some VERY much more knowledgable people than I seem fairly convinced. The theory seems to be that they were supposed to be some kind of official marketing experiment.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
That is the only article that is that positive about them. And the idea is flawed, there being no official marketing in the period in question - before the end of the war, all production and marketing had been stopped in favour of military tools, and after the war the Contax II, brand, factory line, parts and all were slated for delivery to Kiev as a war reparation, and the whole Jena effort was not for production of cameras, but for production of the needed tools. The most official if could have been would be Zeiss Ikon itself catering to the black market.
But with all of them appearing only three or even five decades later, none of them with any pedigree (not even the name of the last previous owner), they are dubious at least. The pictures of this one even look as if there might be wear and corrosion underneath the paint...
BillBingham2
Registered User
And worth EVERY penny!
Get them now, there is the potential that the price will go up as we approach the next centennial of her creation!
B2 (;->
Jerevan
Recycled User
I know I have seen one of these cream coloured (for want of a better description) cameras at Leicashop, but then again even they do mistakes, I suppose. That particular camera did not have a cream coloured lens, though, if memory serves.
farlymac
PF McFarland
If it is a fake, it's a darn nice looking one. As for the corrosion, well, it is a Zeiss after all.
PF
PF
Gregm61
Well-known
PT Barnham was right, and eBay proves it every day.
I'd rather have a couple of shares of that bridge....
I'd rather have a couple of shares of that bridge....
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
This one was auctioned back in 2008 apparently. Not sure what the point would be though. Reminds me a bit of those Ansco cameras that came in all sorts of weird colors and leatherette patterns during the 1920s.
Muggins
Junk magnet
Now we know where Ilford got the idea for the Advocate from...
It'd look good next to my C3 Matchmatic...
Adrian
It'd look good next to my C3 Matchmatic...
Adrian
Grytpype
Well-known
Perhaps I may be rather less than 99% convinced now, and the more I research, the less conviced I get. I might have been unduly influenced by that Zeiss Historica article, written in 1987 before we all had the internet, and had learned to be sceptical of everything!
Comparing it with pictures of "genuine" Jenas, the accessory shoe looks right, though it would not be completely impossible for a good engraver to have run off a batch of consecutive numbered fakes. The 'Contax' script on the front-plate also looks correct.
The lens has a serial number very close to the two mentioned in the ZH article on the two cameras known then, and the one pictured by 'tunalegs', but I've just realised they do look rather Jupiter-8-ish.
I don't find the ivory paint offensive (though I prefer chrome), but I do wonder if Zeiss Jena could ever have been tasteless enough to use that "lizard-skin".
Comparing it with pictures of "genuine" Jenas, the accessory shoe looks right, though it would not be completely impossible for a good engraver to have run off a batch of consecutive numbered fakes. The 'Contax' script on the front-plate also looks correct.
The lens has a serial number very close to the two mentioned in the ZH article on the two cameras known then, and the one pictured by 'tunalegs', but I've just realised they do look rather Jupiter-8-ish.
I don't find the ivory paint offensive (though I prefer chrome), but I do wonder if Zeiss Jena could ever have been tasteless enough to use that "lizard-skin".
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
The entire matter of "Jenas" is odd - they surfaced late and in rather large numbers, apparently from nowhere. The most probably source is that they were sold out of some Zeiss (or Pentacon) archive to earn hard cash for the luxury consumption of the GDR party leadership or purchase of embargoed goods - in which case they all passed through the hands of a criminal organisation. Kunst und Antiquitäten GmbH (KuA), the organisation responsible for GDR antiques exports was a secret service branch, and when the bourgeoisie ran out of items worth confiscating, they turned to stealing from museum archives and finally to counterfeiting pictures, porcelain and furniture - painting a bunch of cameras for increased profit would be well within their field of operations.
Grytpype
Well-known
I'm beginning to wonder about most of them, as well!
The camera currently on eBay has a round topped '3' on the focus mount at the 3 metre mark. Contax cameras and their Carl Zeiss lenses used a flat topped '3'. Carl Zeiss were still using flat-top '3's post-war on their lenses. Why would they switch for their cameras? Even Kievs used a flat-topped '3' on the earliest cameras, but changed to round-top later. I can only find 2 pictures showing the mounts on 'ordinary' Jenas, but both of them also show round top '3's.
The only thing about the lens, apart from the S/N ring, that does not look like a mid-'50s Jupiter-8 is the red dot in an indent on the locking tab. The Jupiter has an all-red tab, but all it needs is a drill and a bit of red paint!
Elmar Lang
Well-known
In H.J. Kuc's book, "Auf den Spuren der Contax", the history of the Jena Contax is well described, even through the memories of former employees who worked in that project.
Let's never forget that the original Contax production's line and tools were originally sent to the USSR, where they've been damaged and partially lost so, at Jena and Dresden new production's lines and tools have been (quite adventurously) prepared and later sent to Kiev, after the complete training of the soviet technicians, when also the interesting "1947-Kiev" was produced.
It is also known that the eastern Zeiss, thought to continue the production of the RF-Contax, although most of the efforts went to the development of the (then) advanced Contax-S, while the western Zeiss was developing the IIa/IIIa Contaxes.
Would I buy an "ivory" Jena Contax, I would like to thoroughly examine it before deciding.
Some time ago a true and very fine "chrome" Jena Contax appeared on eBay and was also discussed in this room.
Best wishes,
E.L.
Let's never forget that the original Contax production's line and tools were originally sent to the USSR, where they've been damaged and partially lost so, at Jena and Dresden new production's lines and tools have been (quite adventurously) prepared and later sent to Kiev, after the complete training of the soviet technicians, when also the interesting "1947-Kiev" was produced.
It is also known that the eastern Zeiss, thought to continue the production of the RF-Contax, although most of the efforts went to the development of the (then) advanced Contax-S, while the western Zeiss was developing the IIa/IIIa Contaxes.
Would I buy an "ivory" Jena Contax, I would like to thoroughly examine it before deciding.
Some time ago a true and very fine "chrome" Jena Contax appeared on eBay and was also discussed in this room.
Best wishes,
E.L.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
There is no doubt the Jena Contax existed - what is lacking is its marketing history. And "black market" is not really a satisfying explanation.
Elmar Lang
Well-known
I think that we should remember what was the situation in Germany immediately after the end of war and the shortages suffered by the population.
No wonder that who would have been able to trade "technology" for food was a lucky one. Dresden and Jena, were in the most difficult situation being firstly occupied by the Allied, then by the Soviets.
Actually, in the years 1945-'47 almost no "official" market existed for the eastern Zeiss plants, mostly involved in a production destined to war reparation and further to train the soviet personnel for the Volga/Kiev project.
It is well known though that Zeiss tried to start a production, through all the difficulties of the new "socialist" economic organisation of the eastern Länder before the birth of the DDR.
A collector, should be of course careful, before spending a lot of money, but this applies to any field of collecting.
I see that the eBay piece was sold for 2.365,- Euro.
E.L.