dave lackey
Veteran
Need a little help here to confirm what I have computed mentally but never stopped to write out line-items. With larger file sizes and software additions, there are obviously increased costs when considering managing the files as my computer will need upgrading for the larger files.
Here are some estimates. Please let me know where changes/additions need to be made:
The real cost of an M8:
1. Used Camera Body (Nice condition w/ batteries, charger, etc.) - $2200
2. Summilux 35 or 50 mm Lens - $2000-$4000 (depending on version)
3. New desktop computer (large enough Hard Drives/RAM) - ????
(This is an item that needs to be quite fast and high performance...specs?)
4. Upgrades/New Software? I currently run PS2.
5. Printer- Not necessary.
6. Backup?
7. Processing time...this is going to be huge and expensive.
What else needs to be considered when eventually going to an M8 besides the camera body and lens?:angel:
Here are some estimates. Please let me know where changes/additions need to be made:
The real cost of an M8:
1. Used Camera Body (Nice condition w/ batteries, charger, etc.) - $2200
2. Summilux 35 or 50 mm Lens - $2000-$4000 (depending on version)
3. New desktop computer (large enough Hard Drives/RAM) - ????
(This is an item that needs to be quite fast and high performance...specs?)
4. Upgrades/New Software? I currently run PS2.
5. Printer- Not necessary.
6. Backup?
7. Processing time...this is going to be huge and expensive.
What else needs to be considered when eventually going to an M8 besides the camera body and lens?:angel:
btgc
Veteran
From lousy memory - UV/IR filter(-s) and memory card.
tbarker13
shooter of stuff
If you like B&W, I'd strongly suggest Silver Efex Pro.
You mention backup. I use both an external hard drive and an offsite storage option. (I use mozypro, but there are others.) Neither is terribly expensive.
You mention backup. I use both an external hard drive and an offsite storage option. (I use mozypro, but there are others.) Neither is terribly expensive.
Possible out-of-warranty repairs? UV/IR cut filters.
You don't need a summilux.
You don't need a summilux.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
Repair costs outside of warranty.
Since late 2006 I've been a Linux user and so I've tailored my digital workflow to using strictly open source programs for RAW conversion, image editing and cataloging. With that bit of savings and the performance of a fast computer running Linux, I put money into a quad core motherboard with 8GB of RAM, a fast main drive and a 4TB RAID5 array for storage. I also have 4 other hard drives for work and backup (two of them are in my laptop) and with the volume of files from the digital Leicas, that space is taken up rather quickly. I suggest buying a bunch of external 1TB drives for storage and backup.
I don't think you really need too much speed for processing those files, as long as you're not doing large panoramas from multiple stitched TIFFs, your current system is probably fine. I do most of my work lately on my laptop, not the aforementioned desktop. The laptop is an IBM T60, Core2Duo with 3GB of ram and an upgraded fast hard drive. It does the job with M9 files just fine. Not too fast but it definitely gets the work done.
And other than that, just be prepared to pay if your camera needs any servicing from Leica.
Oh yeah, UV/IR filters. Shameless plug: I happen to have a bunch in sizes between E39 and E52 for sale, quite cheap.
Phil Forrest
Since late 2006 I've been a Linux user and so I've tailored my digital workflow to using strictly open source programs for RAW conversion, image editing and cataloging. With that bit of savings and the performance of a fast computer running Linux, I put money into a quad core motherboard with 8GB of RAM, a fast main drive and a 4TB RAID5 array for storage. I also have 4 other hard drives for work and backup (two of them are in my laptop) and with the volume of files from the digital Leicas, that space is taken up rather quickly. I suggest buying a bunch of external 1TB drives for storage and backup.
I don't think you really need too much speed for processing those files, as long as you're not doing large panoramas from multiple stitched TIFFs, your current system is probably fine. I do most of my work lately on my laptop, not the aforementioned desktop. The laptop is an IBM T60, Core2Duo with 3GB of ram and an upgraded fast hard drive. It does the job with M9 files just fine. Not too fast but it definitely gets the work done.
And other than that, just be prepared to pay if your camera needs any servicing from Leica.
Oh yeah, UV/IR filters. Shameless plug: I happen to have a bunch in sizes between E39 and E52 for sale, quite cheap.
Phil Forrest
This should be that if you like to emulate the look of B&W film, this could be useful. Outside of that, it isn't necessary.
OurManInTangier
An Undesirable
Backup of files is one of the most important issues with digital for me. Regardless of whether you make a living from photography you don't want to lose your pictures. Tim's suggestion is good, I have two external drives one for RAW, one for jpg and then also have offsite storage.
Fraser
Well-known
No need to upgrade ps2, computer doesn't need to be anything special a couple of external drives not much.
floyd
Member
A part from those all ready mentioned you consider some sort of colour profiling hard and software necessary.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
M8 :: $2000
Spare batt :: $130
16G card :: $60
CV Nokton 40mm f/1.4 :: $650
Filter for color work :: $80
MacBook Pro refurb :: $1300
Lightroom :: $250
You can do with just that and be happy for years.
dreilly
Chillin' in Geneva
Add $1000 or so for one of the spectacular zeiss lenses, but otherwise Godfrey's estimate is good. I use flickr pro as my backup solution...they have better tech than I can ever afford and it's $25 a year I think. Burning to CDs is another solution. I have a few external hard drives but they can't spin at 78,000 RPM for ever. Long term storage solutions are as difficult, if not more difficult, with digital than with analog.
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
Hi Dave,
Just a couple of other thoughts:
First.. Fuji X100 ($900 barely used, no extra lenses needed)
Second, if you aren't already familiar with this, there's a new type of DVD-type disc storage system that's being rolled out this year. Its called M-Disc. You can read about it here: http://millenniata.com/ These discs are supposedly able to provide archival stability for multi-hundreds of years! They don't cost much more than any other DVD storage system on the market. Might be worth while keeping an eye on this.
And personally, I think you will soon wish you'd waited a bit before buying the M8. There are just too many new camera ideas coming to the marketplace now or soon that'll blow away anything we've got now. To me, the biggest thing happening is that the camera manufacturers have finally developed technology that can provide very high image quality and performance in bodies significantly smaller (and much more M-like) than the DSLR behemoths currently available.
Just a couple of other thoughts:
First.. Fuji X100 ($900 barely used, no extra lenses needed)
Second, if you aren't already familiar with this, there's a new type of DVD-type disc storage system that's being rolled out this year. Its called M-Disc. You can read about it here: http://millenniata.com/ These discs are supposedly able to provide archival stability for multi-hundreds of years! They don't cost much more than any other DVD storage system on the market. Might be worth while keeping an eye on this.
And personally, I think you will soon wish you'd waited a bit before buying the M8. There are just too many new camera ideas coming to the marketplace now or soon that'll blow away anything we've got now. To me, the biggest thing happening is that the camera manufacturers have finally developed technology that can provide very high image quality and performance in bodies significantly smaller (and much more M-like) than the DSLR behemoths currently available.
dave lackey
Veteran
Good suggestions so far...
I appreciate alternative suggestions but changing from an M body and a Lux lens is not an option for reasons not necessary to discuss in this thread. Suffice it to say that decision has been made.
Anyone have an idea on a cost for a capable computer? I am thinking of a Mac something in lieu of a PC this time. I know too many people who have had crashes lately.
Processing...any idea how much time you folks spend on processing files per 100 images or such? I am assuming there is a certain amount of time necessary when working with RAW files.
How about software? Will that necessarily come with a used M8?
BTW, I am not really sold on an M8 but the M9 is completely out of the question. So, a used camera with software...can that software be installed on my computer even if it is already used on the seller's?
This is beginning to sound like a noob but in the past, working with the Nikon D2H and D2X, PS2 was sufficient but began to slow down with the larger files from the D2x. I never got a very efficient workflow that I liked and I can see more issues to work with using RAW files.
I appreciate alternative suggestions but changing from an M body and a Lux lens is not an option for reasons not necessary to discuss in this thread. Suffice it to say that decision has been made.
Anyone have an idea on a cost for a capable computer? I am thinking of a Mac something in lieu of a PC this time. I know too many people who have had crashes lately.
Processing...any idea how much time you folks spend on processing files per 100 images or such? I am assuming there is a certain amount of time necessary when working with RAW files.
How about software? Will that necessarily come with a used M8?
BTW, I am not really sold on an M8 but the M9 is completely out of the question. So, a used camera with software...can that software be installed on my computer even if it is already used on the seller's?
This is beginning to sound like a noob but in the past, working with the Nikon D2H and D2X, PS2 was sufficient but began to slow down with the larger files from the D2x. I never got a very efficient workflow that I liked and I can see more issues to work with using RAW files.
dave lackey
Veteran
Thanks. But the list above leaves out at least one Lux lens. Will not buy a used computer system, period. How much for a new one of sufficient capability? Will need more than one card and backup drives. PS2 to be updated to???? How much? Lightroom..is that a new software package or used?
In other words, I need a really realistic estimate of ALL items, so we need to modify the list above.
dave lackey
Veteran
Hi Dave,
Just a couple of other thoughts:
First.. Fuji X100 ($900 barely used, no extra lenses needed)
Second, if you aren't already familiar with this, there's a new type of DVD-type disc storage system that's being rolled out this year. Its called M-Disc. You can read about it here: http://millenniata.com/ These discs are supposedly able to provide archival stability for multi-hundreds of years! They don't cost much more than any other DVD storage system on the market. Might be worth while keeping an eye on this.
And personally, I think you will soon wish you'd waited a bit before buying the M8. There are just too many new camera ideas coming to the marketplace now or soon that'll blow away anything we've got now. To me, the biggest thing happening is that the camera manufacturers have finally developed technology that can provide very high image quality and performance in bodies significantly smaller (and much more M-like) than the DSLR behemoths currently available.
Jamie,
Haven't heard of the M-disc...will check into it!
Jeff S
Well-known
I hope that's because you already own one. If not, why bother with getting the best front end gear?
Jeff
Dave, rememeber there is currently a Lightroom 4 beta that is free... you can use that for a few months before paying once it is out of beta.
You do not have to print your own... this can be outsourced.
celluloidprop
Well-known
My Costco prints 16x20 and 20x30 on a Epson 7880 for very little. You don't get the really nice baryta papers, but behind glass they look fine. If you don't want prints that large, send in a JPG with multiple prints on one page and use a paper cutter.
You don't have to drop that much on Leica glass - 99.9999999% of the population won't be able to tell if you shot with a Summicron or a Biogon/Planar unless you tell them. drop a couple of those nines for the best C-V lenses.
10 and even 18 megapixel RAW files are not that demanding on a system, certainly not compared with TIFF scans.
You don't have to drop that much on Leica glass - 99.9999999% of the population won't be able to tell if you shot with a Summicron or a Biogon/Planar unless you tell them. drop a couple of those nines for the best C-V lenses.
10 and even 18 megapixel RAW files are not that demanding on a system, certainly not compared with TIFF scans.
flyalf
Well-known
Hi,
The last two points are independent of what camera you purchase since all new ones produces large RAW files. But you can do with not-so-much processing power, but need some disk space.
For an M9 you can assume 35 MB per photo. Per year with between 1000 - 10 000 pics this makes up aprox 30 - 300GB. A 1TB disk for backup is reasonable and should last at least 3years before crashing. Perhaps 100 - 200USD? In addition you need another backup, and a good choice is network based backup that is now offered for aprox 100 USD per year for unlimited storage ( but only for one PC per license).
So lets say aprox 150 USD / year for storage? Excluding NAS and so on
Edit: The network based storage is IMO to slow as anything but archive and a backup to backup, both up/download. And IMO flickr and similar is NOT for backup, but for sharing and displaying photos.
The last two points are independent of what camera you purchase since all new ones produces large RAW files. But you can do with not-so-much processing power, but need some disk space.
For an M9 you can assume 35 MB per photo. Per year with between 1000 - 10 000 pics this makes up aprox 30 - 300GB. A 1TB disk for backup is reasonable and should last at least 3years before crashing. Perhaps 100 - 200USD? In addition you need another backup, and a good choice is network based backup that is now offered for aprox 100 USD per year for unlimited storage ( but only for one PC per license).
So lets say aprox 150 USD / year for storage? Excluding NAS and so on
Edit: The network based storage is IMO to slow as anything but archive and a backup to backup, both up/download. And IMO flickr and similar is NOT for backup, but for sharing and displaying photos.
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