Livesteamer
Well-known
I have used rangefinders for twenty years now. I also have a 1968 Triumph GT6 automobile. Does that qualify as a vintage automobile or masochism. Maybe that's why I can enjoy FSU cameras. Joe
the RF Culture
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piazza63
Established
I defiantly fit the mold, but not because I'm an RF shooter, but because I'm a product designer. So you have to ask yourself this the RFF culture part of something bigger? Quality? Simplicity? Good Design? Heavy metal objects? I think there is a greater theme.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Yeah, I do get that sometimes. I tell them that of my 100+ cameras, two are digital.
jmilkins
Digited User
7/10
But I'm flexible: 1930 high chassis Invicta with Van den Plas coachwork. Hexar AF.😉
But I'm flexible: 1930 high chassis Invicta with Van den Plas coachwork. Hexar AF.😉
JPSuisse
Well-known
Hi all you counter-culture revolutionaries....
I think that piazza63 is on to something. I think that it is about the product and the way certain people perceive the product's attributes. I think it takes 2 things to use a manual focus CRF now: (1) a critical view for products in general and (2) a need for the particular advantages.
I choose a CRF because of it's compact size, the relation of its size to image quality and the fact that I never got the hang of the AF focus on my Nikon D100.
The attitudes above have led me to some strange habits / purchases: (1) I regularly use a straight razor (Rasiermesser) and have since I was in high school, (2) still drive a 1986 SAAB 900 SPG (cool car with a special feeling that I also used to repair myself!!!!) (3) cook on copper, (4) use a MAC ever since Apple switched to Unix, etc.
So far Leica is the only company that, by the way, hasn't directly insulted me with it's advertising strategy. I really liked the advertisement with M8 and the straight razor. They showing the products advantages. Both SAAB and Apple for instance, really almost insult me to the point that I'm ready to change products... Both these companies try to sell with the idea that "different is better." That's just stupid. And by inference, I start to feel stupid carrying around an overprice Powerbook just to be different. (Although at the time that wasn't why I bought the damn thing...) Different is only better, if you find the advantage good for the particular market.
I think here the marketing people need to better understand their customers in many cases. Leica could also improve, but it's marketing department is not too bad.
JP
I think that piazza63 is on to something. I think that it is about the product and the way certain people perceive the product's attributes. I think it takes 2 things to use a manual focus CRF now: (1) a critical view for products in general and (2) a need for the particular advantages.
I choose a CRF because of it's compact size, the relation of its size to image quality and the fact that I never got the hang of the AF focus on my Nikon D100.
The attitudes above have led me to some strange habits / purchases: (1) I regularly use a straight razor (Rasiermesser) and have since I was in high school, (2) still drive a 1986 SAAB 900 SPG (cool car with a special feeling that I also used to repair myself!!!!) (3) cook on copper, (4) use a MAC ever since Apple switched to Unix, etc.
So far Leica is the only company that, by the way, hasn't directly insulted me with it's advertising strategy. I really liked the advertisement with M8 and the straight razor. They showing the products advantages. Both SAAB and Apple for instance, really almost insult me to the point that I'm ready to change products... Both these companies try to sell with the idea that "different is better." That's just stupid. And by inference, I start to feel stupid carrying around an overprice Powerbook just to be different. (Although at the time that wasn't why I bought the damn thing...) Different is only better, if you find the advantage good for the particular market.
I think here the marketing people need to better understand their customers in many cases. Leica could also improve, but it's marketing department is not too bad.
JP
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
I shoot RF Leica, play lead guitar in a rock band, drive a black paint Ferrari, and once dated Sharon Stone. I drink Chivas on the rocks, love my Esprsso, and dine at Mortons (filet mignon please). You'll reognize me by the 2Karat stone in my left ear and my black RayBans (Mick Jagger copied me). I love to dance salsa in Rio.
The RF Leica culture is groovy...
The RF Leica culture is groovy...
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Admit it, guys... we're a demographic. There soon will be shopping catalogs for people like us.
DougFord
on the good foot
I don’t often take photographs, but when I do, I use a leica. – stay thirsty my friends.
piazza63
Established
quality
quality
I must suggest to further my previous point that if you haven't you must read Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance. This is great because it touches on like +4 of the questions on this poll. But truthfully I believe that it addresses the idea about the bigger picture. The book explores the concepts of quality, time, and knowledge. And essentially the enjoyment that comes from doing things things yourself and doing them right. All of which I think this culture of RFF is about.
quality
I must suggest to further my previous point that if you haven't you must read Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance. This is great because it touches on like +4 of the questions on this poll. But truthfully I believe that it addresses the idea about the bigger picture. The book explores the concepts of quality, time, and knowledge. And essentially the enjoyment that comes from doing things things yourself and doing them right. All of which I think this culture of RFF is about.
Livesteamer
Well-known
Piazza63 has touched something important. In my 23 years as a machinist, if I had trouble with a job, 98% of the time I had missed something basic. The Leica is all about high quality basic photography. To use the Leica or other rangefinders, you must focus on those basics. It forces me to think and maybe even learn. Joe
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
I hate all cars. I wish that public transportation went everywhere in America and I would never have to drive a car again, and get to read a book while traveling.
I love old cameras, synthesizers, guitars, and microphones, though.
I love old cameras, synthesizers, guitars, and microphones, though.
reagan
hey, they're only Zorkis
my occupation requires laptop/blackberry/digi-this'n-that/etc. but the keepers in my world are mechanical RFs, play guitar, button down collars & jeans ... and the last time I looked, I still have a Norton Commando and a BSA Rocket.3 in the barn. my wife just calls it "hopeless packratism of old stuff."
jamiewakeham
Long time lurker
I think I'm just confused. On one side there's the M3, Breitling Navitimer, '78 Strat. On the other the new-ish Nissan, Gap rather than Levi jeans, iPod.
I'd love an Indian Enfield but my wife won't let me...
Jamie
I'd love an Indian Enfield but my wife won't let me...
Jamie
Brad Maestas
Established
They're calling the retro movement "throwback" in these parts. This is particularly noticeable amongst the hipsters that terrorize the immediate vicinity (read all of NYC). Collecting vinyl, vintage clothes, old cameras and generally bringing new heights to pretentiousness, most of these folks collect these objects as superficial lifestyle accessories rather than actually consider using them for their intended purposes.
Just last week I saw a guy near Bedford Ave in Williamsburg that had a Fed 3 with a collapsible 50 and when I tried to strike up a conversation about it, he immediately told me that he had no idea how it works and that he couldn't be troubled with actually having to find and load film into it, let alone actually develop it. He said he had a digital P&S for that. The Fed was essentially a necklace. It sorta pissed me off.
With regards to cameras, I am by no means a mechanical B&W stalwart, wallowing in the grainy, vignetted trenches of vintage camera territory but I have been trying to atone for all my previous transgressions. I have been an SLR user since the beginning. I did apprentice with a portraitist that used MF but it was a Mamiya 645 AF so that didn't count. I used an F4e extensively for over 10 years in the 90's and after it was stolen, I replaced it with a Contax RTS III. While still somewhat automated, it brought me back to manual focusing which was my goal in the first place (the Zeiss glass was just a perk 🙂). I went through several Canon EOS bodies, both film and digital, and more than ever I yearned for something even more manual than my Contax so I sold some musical gear and started looking for a RF. I was set on a Bessa R3M kit when I found an M6 with 35 Summicron being sold locally for a great price so I got it instead. I couldn't be happier. I am still saving for an M2, M3, M4 and an R3M and R4M.
I was into vintage and mechanical watches before I got my first camera. In fact, I almost made a career in watch repair! I haven't owned a car or motorcycle in nearly 10 years so can't comment on that although I do love the lines and style of classical autos and motorbikes. I had a stint with some vintage clothes from a local thrift store. As soon as it started becoming popular though I forgot about it. I have always collected vinyl. This is another thing that pre-dated my photo bug. I've always enjoyed reading. I do notice not as many people reading but it still seems popular on the subways at least.
I love all music but classical music is one of my faves, particularly recordings featuring the lute, vihuela, classical guitar and double bass. I am a multi-instrumentalist myself, playing guitar (classical, flamenco, acoustic/electric), double bass, electric bass, piano/organ, percussion, trumpet and saxophone. I make most of my living performing and giving lessons on bass and classical guitar.
With regards to being a Bauhaus heir, I suppose some of that is in me as I do appreciate simple and efficient form and function but I still embrace diversity so I can't say that I ascribe to any "family" of thought or philosophy.
Just last week I saw a guy near Bedford Ave in Williamsburg that had a Fed 3 with a collapsible 50 and when I tried to strike up a conversation about it, he immediately told me that he had no idea how it works and that he couldn't be troubled with actually having to find and load film into it, let alone actually develop it. He said he had a digital P&S for that. The Fed was essentially a necklace. It sorta pissed me off.
With regards to cameras, I am by no means a mechanical B&W stalwart, wallowing in the grainy, vignetted trenches of vintage camera territory but I have been trying to atone for all my previous transgressions. I have been an SLR user since the beginning. I did apprentice with a portraitist that used MF but it was a Mamiya 645 AF so that didn't count. I used an F4e extensively for over 10 years in the 90's and after it was stolen, I replaced it with a Contax RTS III. While still somewhat automated, it brought me back to manual focusing which was my goal in the first place (the Zeiss glass was just a perk 🙂). I went through several Canon EOS bodies, both film and digital, and more than ever I yearned for something even more manual than my Contax so I sold some musical gear and started looking for a RF. I was set on a Bessa R3M kit when I found an M6 with 35 Summicron being sold locally for a great price so I got it instead. I couldn't be happier. I am still saving for an M2, M3, M4 and an R3M and R4M.
I was into vintage and mechanical watches before I got my first camera. In fact, I almost made a career in watch repair! I haven't owned a car or motorcycle in nearly 10 years so can't comment on that although I do love the lines and style of classical autos and motorbikes. I had a stint with some vintage clothes from a local thrift store. As soon as it started becoming popular though I forgot about it. I have always collected vinyl. This is another thing that pre-dated my photo bug. I've always enjoyed reading. I do notice not as many people reading but it still seems popular on the subways at least.
I love all music but classical music is one of my faves, particularly recordings featuring the lute, vihuela, classical guitar and double bass. I am a multi-instrumentalist myself, playing guitar (classical, flamenco, acoustic/electric), double bass, electric bass, piano/organ, percussion, trumpet and saxophone. I make most of my living performing and giving lessons on bass and classical guitar.
With regards to being a Bauhaus heir, I suppose some of that is in me as I do appreciate simple and efficient form and function but I still embrace diversity so I can't say that I ascribe to any "family" of thought or philosophy.
bkrystad
Established
I bought a Kodak Retina IIa because my father still uses a Retina IIIc that he bought in Stuttgart in 1956. I made a darkroom in my basement so I could use my grandfather’s Beseler 23C. I own an Austin Healey 100 because on my walk to grade school I admired one that was often parked in front of a house I passed along the way. I live in a hundred-year-old house because I didn’t want to change anything about it. I wear tortoiseshell Ray Ban sunglasses because they were $7 in a bin at a thrift store. I try to buy clothes as infrequently as possible. I don’t have a watch.
I like simple things that work well. Simple things that work well are often beautiful. And if, like an old camera, they can create beautiful things, that’s all the more reason to value them. It’s just a matter of enjoying what you’re lucky enough to find in life while you have it.
Not sure if that’s an aesthetic or a culture. I doubt that it’s either one.
I like simple things that work well. Simple things that work well are often beautiful. And if, like an old camera, they can create beautiful things, that’s all the more reason to value them. It’s just a matter of enjoying what you’re lucky enough to find in life while you have it.
Not sure if that’s an aesthetic or a culture. I doubt that it’s either one.
40oz
...
"I like simple things that work well. "
That's pretty much it for me, I think. I'm less concerned about the age of the item, or the "vintageness," as it were.
Using things simply because they are old is as smart as using them simply because they are different, as has been commented. But to me, there is nothing wrong with desiring something different even if it isn't obviously better. I get tired of people knocking companies because what they make isn't the same as what some other company makes. One can easily get stuck in a cycle of "this is good, therefore anything different than this is bad." To me that is the real stupidity. Comes up a lot in regards to cars, in my experience, but applies to almost anything.
That's pretty much it for me, I think. I'm less concerned about the age of the item, or the "vintageness," as it were.
Using things simply because they are old is as smart as using them simply because they are different, as has been commented. But to me, there is nothing wrong with desiring something different even if it isn't obviously better. I get tired of people knocking companies because what they make isn't the same as what some other company makes. One can easily get stuck in a cycle of "this is good, therefore anything different than this is bad." To me that is the real stupidity. Comes up a lot in regards to cars, in my experience, but applies to almost anything.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
On another forum today, I actually had a guy tell me that "film takes too long to do really well." I am still trying to find words for how wrong that is, on so many levels. It kind of reminds me of the time I was wearing my Vietnam Veteran's cap and a guy told me that "I know what you guys went through. I saw Apocalypse now." It was about two hours after that before I could form a coherent sentence.
literiter
Well-known
"trying to find words"...Do you not know any profanity? Good well placed profanity, and lots of it, does little to illuminate a fool but it does make one feel better.
Farace
Established
Those that are subscribing to the elitist/luddite school of thought here are missing something. I drive a '71 Alfa Romeo Spider not because it's old or a status symbol (I don't know, or care, if it is; heck I don't think most people even know what it is anymore) but because I like the sound, feel, and smell of it; it's the only car that's consistently put a smile on my face, and I feel connected to it. I shave with a double-edge razor because I honestly think it does a better job than the many-bladed overpriced monstrosities that are foisted on us (and the Merkur has a pleasant heft to it), and I use a shaving brush and soap not out of some "Art of Shaving" metrosexual pretense, but because I like warm lather. I got really tired of cold goo every morning. I play vinyl because I prefer it, the smell of the sleeves reminds me of college radio, and because there's a kind of almost-ceremony in taking an LP out of its sleeve, maybe finding a bit of dried plant matter in the gatefold (from a previous owner of course), looking for the hidden messages scratched in the run-out grooves, putting it on the turntable, and setting the needle down, and because I think one is more involved with the music when you're required to flip sides every twenty minutes or so than when you can put on hours of digits and not pay any attention. I like fountain pens because they're more relaxed (and they're "green," not throwing a stick of plastic away every time the ink runs out). I like vintage clothing--sometimes--because it suits me (no pun intended). Most of my electric basses are from the '70s (some are older, one is slightly newer), and like the vinyl, I don't collect them, I play them. I believe there's a difference between having something just to have it, and having something to use it. As for RFs, I gravitated to them because they're generally smaller, lighter and quieter than SLRs. I have yet to be comfortable with digital. There's something that just feels very right about my Retina IIC, the way it fits in my hand , the soft snip when the shutter fires, and the way it folds up. Is there anyone making a camera like that now? Well, then, I guess I have to use an old one.
I've come to realize that along the timeline of manufactured items, the best of them are not necessarily at the closest end. Often the best item (and sometimes the only available choice), at least for my purposes, is in the middle. I don't use old for the sake of using old or for some image it may bestow upon me, I use old if it's the best choice for me. It just happens to be old. (I think I came to this realization when it suddenly occurred to me one day that I shop in antique stores not for home decor, but for things to actually use (like the great potato masher in my kitchen drawer; there's nothing modern that comes close).)
I've come to realize that along the timeline of manufactured items, the best of them are not necessarily at the closest end. Often the best item (and sometimes the only available choice), at least for my purposes, is in the middle. I don't use old for the sake of using old or for some image it may bestow upon me, I use old if it's the best choice for me. It just happens to be old. (I think I came to this realization when it suddenly occurred to me one day that I shop in antique stores not for home decor, but for things to actually use (like the great potato masher in my kitchen drawer; there's nothing modern that comes close).)
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Oculus Sinister
Member
They just don't make them like they used to, most everything made these days are geared towards planned obsolescence. My love for things "old" applies to most everything that I want to have around me, I love listening to tube audio, playing vinyl records, old firearms, old SLRs(of which my Nikon F2AS is my favorite) and of course my new found love for rangefinder cameras. I now have a Nikon S, a Leica M2 and a Leica IIIf RD and I love them all. This doesn't mean that I have to shun modern conveniences, as I like to drive my SUV, I love to surf the web and like playing online games, I still have my digital photography gear for parties, sports and other large events. It's always nice to have a choice whenever you feel like it.
