The Risks Of Photography

tbhv55 said:
Yes, but the UK can easily match US levels of stupidity. I reckon that, measured on a per capita basis, we're probably even better at it than you...🙄😀
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Centuries more practice! There's something to be said for tradition, after all. Though come to think of it, when it comes to new, cutting-edge stupidity, Britain can be pretty good too. I don't know if it's still true, but the US supermarket tabloids (the nearest you'll find to the red tops and the Wail, but with ALL the news removed) were traditionally staffed by expatriate British "journalists".

Ignorance and xenophobia are worthy of further discussions, of course.

Cheers,

R.
 
@ Ansel (from Spain): "The UK is just a very violent place to live, has been for a long time now...."
@ Roger: (from France): "Is it the UK? Or is it more specifically the English?"

Well, speaking as someone who's actually lived in England for over 50 years--mostly in or about its cities--I can only say I've never noticed.

"Very violent" by what standards?

Regards,
D.
 
D.O'K. said:
Well, speaking as someone who's actually lived in England for over 50 years--mostly in or about its cities--I can only say I've never noticed.

"Very violent" by what standards?

Regards,
D.
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I suspect that these comments are really referring to the (uncomfortably large) minority of bone-headed idiots, who are only too willing to respond to the ludicrously provocative messages given out by some parts of the UK media.

Such people then take the law into their own hands, and mete out their own "justice", without reference to something as trivial as "the facts of the matter".
 
D.O'K. said:
@ Ansel (from Spain): "The UK is just a very violent place to live, has been for a long time now...."
@ Roger: (from France): "Is it the UK? Or is it more specifically the English?"

Well, speaking as someone who's actually lived in England for over 50 years--mostly in or about its cities--I can only say I've never noticed.

"Very violent" by what standards?

Regards,
D.
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Perhaps "violent" is the wrong word. Try "angry" or "just looking for an excuse to take offence". In total, for periods of up to 18 years at a stretch, I've lived in the UK for 38 of my 63 years, and whenever I visit the UK (I've lived in France for 11 years now) there seem to be more and more restrictions, jobsworths and general anger in the UK. Perhaps you don't see the violence/anger because you're used to it, while those of us who live/have lived elsewhere see things differently.

EDIT: tbhv55's comments, above, are also very relevant.

Cheers,

R.
 
Worth noting that the UK is a much, much, less violent society than the US. But I don't wish to find excuses for the viler portions of the media or the boneheads who are whipped up into hatred of whatever outgroup is flavour of the month.
 
D.O'K. said:
@ Ansel (from Spain): "The UK is just a very violent place to live, has been for a long time now...."
@ Roger: (from France): "Is it the UK? Or is it more specifically the English?"

Well, speaking as someone who's actually lived in England for over 50 years--mostly in or about its cities--I can only say I've never noticed.

"Very violent" by what standards?

Regards,
D.
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Well, I was born and bred in London - as an ex-40 year resident I can safely say its a very very violent place to live. Must have on of the highest rates for homicide and rape etc. in Europe.
 
Ansel said:
UK is violent crime capital of Europe
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...73/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html
The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.



The most violent country in Europe
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ry-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
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I don't think those figures do the country justice.

The problem with the UK is that you get places like Oxford (where I live) where absolutely nothing happens and places like Manchester where there is real and serious danger.

I lived in Manchester from '96 to 2001 and I might as well have been in Sarajevo at the time (no disrespect to anyone & anything), it was that bad.
 
Rodchenko said:
No way is Britain worse than the US. Their murder rate is several times ours.
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Yes, but in terms of perceived danger the British appear to feel like living in a place worse than the worst US murder capitals, rather than somewhere near Sweden (where crime statistics actually put them), while the USians seem pretty comfortable living in a place with the violent death record of a war zone (as long as the deaths are administered by a gun-wielding protestant neighbour rather than a heathen foreigner, that is).

Blame the tabloids - much of the British press is perversely sex&crime centred, and at least while I still had first-hand experience, it had a much wider distribution than in other English-language countries with a similarly low-grade press.
 
I readily concede Roger's point (post 25) that there's more and more general anger in the UK, and indeed ever more restrictions and jobsworths. Worse, that's been the unhappy trend for some years.

But unless "violence" is to be equated with "anger" (fair enough on one view, but I took it to refer to physical violence) that doesn't make the UK a "very violent place to live". Even if it's the most violent country in Europe statistically (I don't know; and forgive me if I'm sceptical about the authority of the Daily Mail) I strongly suspect the overwhelming majority of its people (I'll take a wild guess at 95%+?) live without ever experiencing it: not because they've failed to notice it, or have become used to it, or are complacent, but simply because it's not there.

Of course I also concede it depends where one is, where one looks, and how (un)lucky one is....

Regards,
D.
 
Dear Darren,

And equally, I fully concede your points, about not (necessarily) conflating violence with anger, and the dubious persuasiveness of the Daily Wail. Indeed, for the latter, I'd say that if the Daily Mail said the sky was sometimes blue, it would shake my confidence that it ever could be. Likewise, Sevo's comment that "much of the British press is perversely sex&crime centred" is indisputable; I'd add "alarmist" to that description.

Chers,

R.
 
Rodchenko said:
No way is Britain worse than the US. Their murder rate is several times ours.
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You have to take into the equation that US is several time's bigger.

The last post to the press, in the 60's there was to all, less crime, the towns were a lot further apart and more green between.

Now that the press has a near on free will to put what ever they like in their rags, and the towns closer to each other, crime and papers will make more headlines, and so create more.
 
Grahamb said:
You have to take into the equation that US is several time's bigger.

The last post to the press, in the 60's there was to all, less crime, the towns were a lot further apart and more green between.

Now that the press has a near on free will to put what ever they like in their rags, and the towns closer to each other, crime and papers will make more headlines, and so create more.
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After adjusting for population, the US murder rate is about 4x the UK (deaths per 100,000 head of population). Different sources give different exact figures but as far as I can see it's just over 1 homicide per 100,000 people in the UK and rather under 5 in the USA.

Not sure what you mean by " Now that the press has a near on free will to put what ever they like in their rags". Are you implying that they couldn't do that 50 years ago? Because I think you'll find they could.

Who is to blame for the ascendancy of the gutter press? Easy: the people who buy the papers. If people wanted measured, responsible, thoughtful reporting, they'd buy it. As indeed they do: papers such as the Torygraph, Grauniad, Indie, FT or even the Times are not really in the same class as the red-tops and the Daily Wail.

Cheers,

R.
 
You have to take into the equation that US is several time's bigger.
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I think it may help to get some real numbers into this debate. According to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), the US sees four times as many murders as the UK with 4.7 homicides per 100,000 head of population against 1.2 for the UK.

The UK is only slightly worse than Sweden's 1.0 / 100,000 but 50% worse than Germany's 0.8 / 100,000.

I apologise for sullying this conversation with facts. 😉

OOPS, Roger beat me to the punch, which is why he's a successful author and I'm not. 😀
 
Oh no doubt that the papers printed what they liked, 50 years ago, it is when in small villages, like from where i grew up, what we read in the papers, well were exactly that, what we read: as we never seen this crime go on, it was just in the papers.

Reality is different, when it is on your front door.
 
I'm a Brit who was born in Manchester and who has lived in N Wales, Newcastle, Perth and now rural Essex but commuting daily to London.

I've travelled fairly extensively in my 52 years and have jjust returned from driving across the USA via Route 66 - starting at the Chicago end and visiting St Louis, Oklahoma City, Albuquerque and LA + all stops between).

The vast majority of the US was a breeze and felt very safe. I saw cops taking down some form of offender in St Louis and he was beaten so badkly he was carted off in an ambulance. No idea what hed (allegedly) done or why he got the treatment he received.

I never had a minute's trouble in downtown LA (despite warnings that it is pretty bad there most of the time) but got harrassed for money in Amarillo and a friend who lives in Albuquerque warned me - in all sincerity - of certain places not to visit after dark.

I've visited numerous other countries. I've been bugged by beggars but no real "threat" but someone did attempt tro mug me in Bristol once.

Frankly, I don't think it's either fair or realistic to praise or condemn nations in this way as the situation can change from street to street, town to town and crap-mongers like the right-wing British press (Telegraph, Mail, Express and other tabloids) just seem to throw fuel on the fire. I'm not denying that specific problems exist but sensationalising and popularising them does NOTHING to help resolve them. It does sell newspapers, though...

People are generally good but the less well educated and easily led have a tendency to need a bogeyman to blame and attack. I doubt child abuse is more prevalent these days than it ever was - but we hear a lot more about it and the internet works for evil as well as for good.
 
I also lived in Manchester for 14 years - its no more or less violent than the rest of the UK. But since moving to Spain I have noticed that there is a lot lot less violence, child abduction, rape, murder, etc. etc.... These things seems like an every day occurrence in the UK, but are very rare here indeed.

The UK is a very violent place. Its epidemic.
 
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