Pfreddee
Well-known
I am looking for a product to eliminate/reduce the amount of oxygen in my developer storage bottles. Some years back there was a product called "Bloxygen" on the market. It was sold in my favorite woodworking supply store, and was simply a can of compressed nitrogen. You sprayed it into an open can of paint after you had used part of the paint, but wanted to save the remainder without having it develop a "skin" on top of the paint, or having the paint otherwise deteriorate from oxygen in the can. They seem to have taken it off the market.:bang:
So, what product is there, if anything, sold to replace the oxygen in the developer bottle with an inert gas, and help retard oxidation?
Thanks to all who reply.
With best regards.
Pfreddee (Stephen)
So, what product is there, if anything, sold to replace the oxygen in the developer bottle with an inert gas, and help retard oxidation?
Thanks to all who reply.
With best regards.
Pfreddee (Stephen)
xwhatsit
Well-known
They have things like that sold to restaurants (and high-end winos) that put nitrogen or some inert gas into the top of wine bottles, which you then seal with a rubber cork. Same issue, half-empty (half-full?) bottles of wine -- which restaurants like to keep around, to sell a nice selection of wines by the glass -- tend to oxidise and taste like crap not long after they've been opened. And you don't always want to refrigerate red wine.
Ask around some posh wine shop maybe?
Ask around some posh wine shop maybe?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
There's a Tetenal product -- Protectan? -- but Frances has gone to bed and I'm not about to wake her.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
craygc
Well-known
Depending on the size of the opening on your bottles, I find these things are the easiest and most effective means of removing air from developer bottles...
Ljós
Well-known
Depending on the size of the opening on your bottles, I find these things are the easiest and most effective means of removing air from developer bottles...
Exactly. Hence, Protectan is for those who lost their marbles ;-)
t.s.k.
Hooked on philm
Taken off the market? Where are you located?
I've used it for years and still do. In fact their website is still around.
You can get some here (US).
I've used it for years and still do. In fact their website is still around.
You can get some here (US).
EdSawyer
Established
It's just argon...
It's just argon...
the bloxygen stuff is just Argon. Beseler used to make a can of stuff like that too, I still have some but I don't know if it says what's in it.
If Argon is effective, just go get a small tank of that at a welding supply place. At $13/can for the bloxygen, a small tank from a welding place will pay for itself in short order. Once you have the tank (the real expense) argon refills are cheap. I have a MIG welder that uses argon/co2 mix for steel, (pure argon I think is usually for welding aluminum), which might work well too.
-Ed
It's just argon...
the bloxygen stuff is just Argon. Beseler used to make a can of stuff like that too, I still have some but I don't know if it says what's in it.
If Argon is effective, just go get a small tank of that at a welding supply place. At $13/can for the bloxygen, a small tank from a welding place will pay for itself in short order. Once you have the tank (the real expense) argon refills are cheap. I have a MIG welder that uses argon/co2 mix for steel, (pure argon I think is usually for welding aluminum), which might work well too.
-Ed
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Marbles may be a less elegant solution (in the solution) but they are a more pretty one. I've also used accordion-like collapsible storage bottles.
Freakscene
Obscure member
Accordion bottles trap bubbles in the pleats and are worse than regular straigh-sided bottles.
You can use this stuff: http://www.amazon.com/Wine-Enthusia...1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1270458905&sr=8-1-fkmr0
Marbles are good too, but you probably will only minimise the air interface, because there will always be a tiny bubble in there no matter how much you fill the bottle. The best option is to use the developer fast.
Marty
Marty
You can use this stuff: http://www.amazon.com/Wine-Enthusia...1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1270458905&sr=8-1-fkmr0
Marbles are good too, but you probably will only minimise the air interface, because there will always be a tiny bubble in there no matter how much you fill the bottle. The best option is to use the developer fast.
Marty
Marty
Freakscene
Obscure member
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
My current batch of Rodinal appears to be pre-aged. Opened a brand new 125ml bottle the other day to discover it was already brown and forming crystals!
At least I won't have to go through the stress of watching it change!
At least I won't have to go through the stress of watching it change!
oftheherd
Veteran
Never had that happen with accordian bottles. I tap the sides just as I do when developing in a steel tank. Some small minor amounts are hard to prevent, but should do little damage.
Another thing that used to be recommended was blowing your breath in the bottle to introduce carbon dioxide. Again, perhaps not elegant, but it should work for the (hopefully) short time until the depletion of the bottle.
Freakscene
Obscure member
I looked in the accordion bottles with an endoscope - even if you thump them bubbles remain. I measured oxidation as 8-30% faster in those bottles than in glass bottles filled to as close to the top as possible.
Blowing your breath into a developer bottle is pointless - there is plenty of oxygen left in exhalation - otherwise CPR would not work. Exhaled air is still about 16% oxygen and only about 4% CO2. That is not going to help.
Marty
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
You can minimise the amount of air by using wine bladders ... cleaned of course. Fill them and then bleed what air there is through the valve while it's at the top of the bladder and there's not much air left at all!
Marty's gonna shoot holes in this theory too of course! (waiting)
Marty's gonna shoot holes in this theory too of course!
(waiting)
Freakscene
Obscure member
Wine bladders probably work better than pleated accordion bottles, but I never looked into one to be sure. We buy better grades of wine than that in South Australia. If it works with long-term storage of Xtol, it's probably okay.
Marty
Marty
maddoc
... likes film again.
Just use lighter-gas (the one to refill your gas-lighter NOT the liquid to refill a Zippo). Lighter-gas is butane or a mixture of butane and propane and much cheaper than Argon or purified Nitrogen.
Freakscene
Obscure member
I'd caution against this - I've seen static electricity generated by opening the bottle lid arc and ignite the gas, causing a surprisingly large explosion. No OH&S inspectors at home, of course, just a warning to try to help keep everyone safe.
Marty
maddoc
... likes film again.
The same gas is used as aerosol propellant and in refrigerators, where it replaced the harmful the environment FKW (fluorocarbons). I have never seen in long years of laboratory work any bottle lid causing an arc when opening.
Of course caution is always necessary when handling chemicals of any kind, especially flammables.
GoneSavage
not actually
Why marbles? Sorry, I'm new at this.
Freakscene
Obscure member
To add something non-reactive to raise the level of the liquid to minimise the size of its air interface. This slows oxidation.
Marty